Zone 2-3 Heart rate? I can't even stay outta Zone 5

[iain]

I absolutely just followed 220-age and ran with it. I'm not so much obsessing over needing to hang out in Zone 2 as a number, more that I'm trying to (terms I dont 100% understand incoming) get both Aerobic and Anaerobic and as I (barely) understood it, a convenient measure is heart rate. I also wasn't sure that spending 3-5 days a week hanging around at my (perceived) max HR would be a 'good' thing, especially as a newbie to regular cardio.

Yeah, I figured that 30 mins wasnt a long row.. I'm kinda stunned looking at what some folks on here, reddit or generally will do, haha. Its also what I can get away with during my lunch break and if I set it into a habit for myself, I may get off my butt and start doing longer pieces at home.

Believe me you will know if you go past threshold (zone 4) and start to increase oxygen debt. While you can stay there for some time, this would not be sustainable day in day out. "Anaerobic" is a difficult term to understand and even more confusing when used for an HR Zone. You will generate some energy anaerobically at all but the gentlest paces. The issue is whether you can aerobically deal with the products so that they do not accumulate. This happens in phases. "VO2 Max" is the output beyond which this is impossible and is working very hard indeed. But there is the whole of zone 4 when we manage to maintain the byproduct levels but at increasing levels. As such i don't like to use the terms. Yes 500 or shorter distances at close to maximum are "anaerobic", but it has been estimated that even in the painfest that is an all out 2k around 80% of the energy is produced aerobically. The assumption on this forum is that people want to approach their optimum rowing performance. But some people just want to stay healthy even if not as fit as they could be. As such, if you are happy with the results of your rowing and it is sustainable, that is fine. Don't obsess with the numbers beyongd what makes the rowing more meaningful to you.

You will have realised that 220-age is not respected here and can be very misleading, I would forget it. What you need to do is associate a given HR at a certain point with its consequences. What the number is is not relevant. But measuring HR will help you to see if you are progressing to faster paces than your fitness improvements warrant before you become over fatigued. It will also allow you to adjust your pace to account for low grade illnesses, tiredness, strain, different conditions etc. As I have said I struggle a bit with RPE. What appears hard at the start often seems much easier on tired muscles at the end, so I don't trust it. Maybe I have higher endorphin levels (the natural painkillers our body produces during exercise). But many are good at assessing how hard a session is by perceived effort alone. Certainly perceived effort after the same amount of work is a much better measure, but is difficult to implement, so I use HR.

Far too much from me already. Just make sure whatever you do you enjoy. Following advice that makes you dread rowing will only end wit you doing less of it.

[Dangerscouse]

Yeah, figuring out my breathing was another big jump in my longevity.. I started out thinking I "had" to just breathe out at the end of the drive and finish my in-breathe at the start of the catch. Problem is, with a belly, I'd run into my legs, compress my chest, reduce my breath..

I now do 2 breaths, exhale-pre catch, inhale through catch into drive, exhale end of drive into return.. That definitely helped my HR some.

Ill try to get a form video and have some folks here critique it. cheers..

Breathing is an underrated skill, and can be really helpful in making you more efficient. To a large extent it's natural and automated, but you highlight an important aspect: breathing sequence.

Finding a natural rhythm is important and will happen automatically up to a given stroke rate, which it will then become a subtle, hidden issue as oxygen debt builds and CO2 increasingly effects you. Training will improve this as fitness is important but you also need to become accustomed to more frequent shallower breaths, as a change in breathing depth can be an incremental problem.

I also find that during longer sessions, I really benefit from fairly frequently deep breaths, as I naturally take slightly shallower breaths. I also do a shoulder shrug / shake too, as there's no benefit in carrying tension in your shoulders.

[iain]

Finding a natural rhythm is important and will happen automatically up to a given stroke rate, which it will then become a subtle, hidden issue as oxygen debt builds and CO2 increasingly effects you. Training will improve this as fitness is important but you also need to become accustomed to more frequent shallower breaths, as a change in breathing depth can be an incremental problem.

I find that the "natural" breathing continues too long at higher effort levels and so deliberately instigate 2 breaths per min as soon as I am up to speed. Otherwise sometimes I have been gasping and broken the breathing coordination with my stroke leading to loss of rhythm and several poor strokes.

[hikeplusrow]

Finding a natural rhythm is important and will happen automatically up to a given stroke rate, which it will then become a subtle, hidden issue as oxygen debt builds and CO2 increasingly effects you. Training will improve this as fitness is important but you also need to become accustomed to more frequent shallower breaths, as a change in breathing depth can be an incremental problem.

I find that the "natural" breathing continues too long at higher effort levels and so deliberately instigate 2 breaths per min as soon as I am up to speed. Otherwise sometimes I have been gasping and broken the breathing coordination with my stroke leading to loss of rhythm and several poor strokes.

2 breaths per min is super impressive

[JaapvanE]

2 breaths per min is super impressive

As a judoka I actually help people achieve that breathing rythm, most tap out within 10 seconds, some don't

[iain]

Doesn't everyone stop breathing through most of their rows Of course I meant per stroke! I have found how you might get to Zone 5 pretty quickly 'though!

[hikeplusrow]

Doesn't everyone stop breathing through most of their rows Of course I meant per stroke! I have found how you might get to Zone 5 pretty quickly 'though!

I'll try that

[cakeman]

Your weight implies a shortish stroke, so at your low ratings (spm) you must be pulling very hard. Did your doc suggest you stay below any particular max HR? Mine said stay below 120, for which I was grateful, it doesn't take much work at all to get there.

Do you plan to lose some weight? Exercise is necessary for all of us, but not sufficient.

I'm not sure what the difference between a long and short stroke would look like. While I do have some stomach that hits my thighs at the end of the return, Im also just generally built fairly sturdy.. long arms, big shoulders, big legs.

Based on zero experience, I dont -feel- that Im pulling especially hard? Its what I can (usually) maintain fairly steadily for my 30 min row. I've got nothing to compare it to other than looking at the C2 ranked pieces for 30 min rows and seeing guys doing 2000m more at a similar stroke rate, so figured I was just a weak newbie haha.

Yes, weight loss is definitely the plan of which this is a part.

[cakeman]

..

Thanks for all the info.. and, yeah, continuing to enjoy it is why I havent gone down the beginners pete plan or similar as, at my current level, I could see pain, dislike and failure in my near future on that path haha.. not ready for progression yet.

cheers.

[cakeman]

Otherwise sometimes I have been gasping and broken the breathing coordination with my stroke leading to loss of rhythm and several poor strokes.

haha, my first couple rows before I figured out 2 breaths were.. horrible. "My god, HOW DO PEOPLE DO THIS" wheeze wheeze gasp wheeze.

In retrospect.. I was probably teaching myself about oxygen debt there.

[Detroitwalt]

I’m glad I found this post. I just started paying attention to the Zone training. I did the heart rate test on rowalong and had a max HR of 174. My zone 2 limit is 122 and I have to go at around a 2:40-2:50 pace to stay in that zone and it is absolutely horrible going that slow. I plan on sticking with it for at least a month to see if I track any improvement. I hoping to be able to increase speed while maintaining the same HR. Plan is to do at least 3 10k or hour long rows per week and throw in some interval training twice a week.

[JaapvanE]

My zone 2 limit is 122 and I have to go at around a 2:40-2:50 pace to stay in that zone and it is absolutely horrible going that slow.

It sounds pretty OK to me. I'm a bit lighter and my MaxHR is a bit higher, but I'm the same length. My normal HR Zone 2 was around 2:30 when I started, and is now (two years later) around 2:18.

I plan on sticking with it for at least a month to see if I track any improvement. I hoping to be able to increase speed while maintaining the same HR. Plan is to do at least 3 10k or hour long rows per week and throw in some interval training twice a week.

You are doing the right thing here, but please realise this will take a lot longer to deliver results.

[iain]

My zone 2 limit is 122 and I have to go at around a 2:40-2:50 pace to stay in that zone and it is absolutely horrible going that slow.

It sounds pretty OK to me. I'm a bit lighter and my MaxHR is a bit higher, but I'm the same length. My normal HR Zone 2 was around 2:30 when I started, and is now (two years later) around 2:18.

I plan on sticking with it for at least a month to see if I track any improvement. I hoping to be able to increase speed while maintaining the same HR. Plan is to do at least 3 10k or hour long rows per week and throw in some interval training twice a week.

You are doing the right thing here, but please realise this will take a lot longer to deliver results.

I'm not a fan of Zone 2 as at the required pace on long rows my stroke gets sloppy. The key is that you are fully recovered for your interval sessions, but if you are rowing 5 times a week including 2 interval sessions, each can be after a rest day so you could go a bit harder on the SS rows ending well into Zone 3. That said, as your heart adapts it gets harder work to get to any HR range, so while this makes sense now, you might like to drop to mid Zone 3 if the intervals become challenging.

Not sure of second advice above, with 2 interval sessions improvement could be quite rapid, you are certainly doing plenty to get pretty fit.

[JaapvanE]

I'm not a fan of Zone 2 as at the required pace on long rows my stroke gets sloppy.

That is why I use the HR Zone 2 SS to perfect technique. So I have a lot of focus on technical elements that prevents me from getting sloppy. And I agree that preventing a weak stroke to develop is important.

The key is that you are fully recovered for your interval sessions,

Totally agree on that one.

[hikeplusrow]

I'm not a fan of Zone 2 as at the required pace on long rows my stroke gets sloppy.

That is why I use the HR Zone 2 SS to perfect technique. So I have a lot of focus on technical elements that prevents me from getting sloppy. And I agree that preventing a weak stroke to develop is important.

The key is that you are fully recovered for your interval sessions,

Totally agree on that one.

For me, UT2 is a strange fish. It does enable me to focus on technique, but, at the same time, my technique is better when I'm applying more force. Also, I rate low with UT2 (16), and seemingly can't do anything about it. I'm focussing on HMs at the moment, and doing a lot of grey zone stuff with continuous pieces at a solid, and progressively increasing, pace. Historically, this approach has always suited me - both with running and cycling, I rarely did intervals.