Help with HR training and lack of progress

[Sakly]

In another thread (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=207709&p=574959#p574959) Sakly mentioned how their speed stuff is usually AT, and I kinda took that to mean that AT workouts were good enough, especially for someone like myself who doesn't train for 2K times. Is AT fast enough that you'd consider it speed / sprint work?

Probably I wrote it in a way you interpreted it this way, but it is not the way it is. AT work is no speed work. I wrote that I incorporate AT as well as speed work very rarely, as I cannot recover properly from them, if done more of them, due to the 3 hard gym sessions, which also include high intensity stuff.
If I would not train that way in the gym, I would definitely go for 2 hard sessions and a grey zone/AT per week and see how I recover from them. And I would definitely be faster on the erg doing so. But I accept that I also like to go hard in the gym and it slows me down on the erg.

[Dangerscouse]

Is AT fast enough that you'd consider it speed / sprint work? Right now I'm doing a 3x7"/4r at 75% 2KW, so around 172W for me. It's enough that I feel gassed at the end. Obviously I'm not heaving like I might in a TR workout, but it's still pretty tough.

If you can recover from TR paced workouts, I'd aim to do one of them a week alongside the AT sessions.

AT is an endurance threshold session, so it's definitely useful and will make you progress, but TR is where the magic will happen quicker. The fact that you're possibly inclined to avoid it is a good sign you need to do it.

[JaapvanE]

If I would not train that way in the gym, I would definitely go for 2 hard sessions and a grey zone/AT per week and see how I recover from them. And I would definitely be faster on the erg doing so. But I accept that I also like to go hard in the gym and it slows me down on the erg.

Basically, you prioritize your gym work in your training, which is a totally valid choice.

But isn't your gym work helping your rowing as well, as you gain more strength?

[Sakly]

If I would not train that way in the gym, I would definitely go for 2 hard sessions and a grey zone/AT per week and see how I recover from them. And I would definitely be faster on the erg doing so. But I accept that I also like to go hard in the gym and it slows me down on the erg.

Basically, you prioritize your gym work in your training, which is a totally valid choice.

But isn't your gym work helping your rowing as well, as you gain more strength?

Definitely it is. When I started with rowing I could already pull a 1:56.5 split for a HM and a 6:58 for a 2k.
But specifics win. If I would put more specific work in, I would get more specific results out. Strength is only helping so much. Mostly it's up to CVS capabilities, which aren't so much trained in the gym (for the typical gym sessions based on classic strength training).

[Dangerscouse]

But I accept that I also like to go hard in the gym and it slows me down on the erg.

Having not done pilates for about 10 months, and then starting up again recently, I wouldn't be so sure that going hard in the gym is slowing you down, especially considering the distances that you were putting in until recently.

Pilates isn't directly comparable, but it's more akin to weights than rowing, specifically the type of Pilates that I do rather than classic Pilates, and I'm sure that it's been a game changer in my recent progress. When all I did was erging, for me at least, there was a tipping point that the specificity didn't keep contributing.

[Sakly]

I wouldn't be so sure that going hard in the gym is slowing you down, especially considering the distances that you were putting in until recently.

I'm absolutely sure it is, as these sessions need by far the most recovery.
If I would cut down to two sessions and reduce volume, focus only on strength in the gym and add two short hard intervals sessions on the erg, I would definitely gain some speed.
I assume the longer distances wouldn't be affected so much.

[mromero680]

I know the logic makes sense, if I can hit a fast pace for a short time endurance is the limiting factor. But, for me, doing LSD just got me good at going slow. On the other hand, I thought some paces were out of reach and I would have to be ok with slowing down. Doing the Holiday Challenge opened my eyes. I need volume and intensity to improve and the volume piece has to be challenging enough to force adaptation, not just heart rate focused. I started getting faster after I ditched the heart rate monitor.