Aging & Drag Factor

[Cyclingman1]

Had the DF at 205 today. Darn hard to pull. Quickly tiring. Have no idea if Conibear stroke being used. In all actuality there's hardly two cents difference in the various strokes. They all employ legs, back, arms in a coordinated fashion.

[G-dub]

Geez Ranger, there are a whole ton of amazing women in the sport of rowing that could probably kick your ass up and down the block. What’s with the sexist bull shit?

[Cyclingman1]

The four basic rowing styles are Adam, DDR, Rosenberg, and Grinko with greater or lesser emphasis on legs or trunk and on consequent or simultaneous movement. Where does the Conibear style fit admidst those four?

[Citroen]

Geez Ranger, there are a whole ton of amazing women in the sport of rowing that could probably kick your ass up and down the block. What’s with the sexist bull shit?

I think you'll find Ranger can't reply to that as his lifetime ban has been re-instated.

[Dangerscouse]

Geez Ranger, there are a whole ton of amazing women in the sport of rowing that could probably kick your ass up and down the block. What’s with the sexist bull shit?

I'm amazed by how excellent some of the women rowers are. Absolutely outstanding, and I'm more than happy to be beaten by them, as it's all done on merit.

[mict450]

I think you'll find Ranger can't reply to that as his lifetime ban has been re-instated.

Thank you Dougie!

[Yankeerunner]

Geez Ranger, there are a whole ton of amazing women in the sport of rowing that could probably kick your ass up and down the block. What’s with the sexist bull shit?

I think you'll find Ranger can't reply to that as his lifetime ban has been re-instated.

Those who lobbied for him to stay here can still find him, totally uncensored, on his own facebook page under the name Richard Cureton"
https://www.facebook.com/richard.cureton.18

If you like to engage him, I'm sure he'd welcome you. If you just like reading his insults, taunts, and criticisms of those who actually compete and who coach, it's there is spades. Don't look for him on rowing groups on facebook, because he's been banned from at least two of them also.

[Citroen]

Those who lobbied for him to stay here can still find him, totally uncensored, on his own facebook page under the name Richard Cureton"
https://www.facebook.com/richard.cureton.18

There, he can rest-in-peace as I don't have a Faceborg ID.

[G-dub]

Geez Ranger, there are a whole ton of amazing women in the sport of rowing that could probably kick your ass up and down the block. What’s with the sexist bull shit?

I'm amazed by how excellent some of the women rowers are. Absolutely outstanding, and I'm more than happy to be beaten by them, as it's all done on merit.

Danger, one only needs to row OTW on a team to validate what you are saying. If you go to any regatta, there are probably twice as many bad ass women as there are men. And it goes from masters down through youth rowing

[Hank51]

The four basic rowing styles are Adam, DDR, Rosenberg, and Grinko with greater or lesser emphasis on legs or trunk and on consequent or simultaneous movement. Where does the Conibear style fit admidst those four?

Two questions:

1.) If a relative newbie wanted to read up on these four rowing styles, what good books/resources should that newbie dig into?

2.) On the topic of drag factor settings, what is a good drag factor range for a heavyweight plus/super heavyweight who stands around 6'5"?

Many thanks for your help.

[Dangerscouse]

2.) On the topic of drag factor settings, what is a good drag factor range for a heavyweight plus/super heavyweight who stands around 6'5"?

Many thanks for your help.

There is no specific answer. I know of someone who rows everything at circa 220, and he is exceptionally fast too, but the accepted wisdom is to aim for 110-130. Yo complicate things more, you might like to use a lower drag for longer distances and higher drag for shorter distances, and it's 99% certain that you'll want a high drag for up to circa 500m

This may, or may not be what suits you, so all I can suggest is to try it at about 125 and see how it feels. You won't, generally speaking, get faster or slower*, but it will feel better or worse to you. I've tried between 110 and circa 135 over the years, and I've occasionally changed it just to see how it feels.


* I say generally speaking as a too high drag will probably exhaust you quicker over a longer distance, and too low a drag over a shorter distance will make it harder to maximise the stroke power as the flywheel is spinning too fast but even that's not absolutely guaranteed to happen.

[Hank51]

There is no specific answer. I know of someone who rows everything at circa 220, and he is exceptionally fast too, but the accepted wisdom is to aim for 110-130. Yo complicate things more, you might like to use a lower drag for longer distances and higher drag for shorter distances, and it's 99% certain that you'll want a high drag for up to circa 500m

This may, or may not be what suits you, so all I can suggest is to try it at about 125 and see how it feels. You won't, generally speaking, get faster or slower*, but it will feel better or worse to you. I've tried between 110 and circa 135 over the years, and I've occasionally changed it just to see how it feels.

* I say generally speaking as a too high drag will probably exhaust you quicker over a longer distance, and too low a drag over a shorter distance will make it harder to maximise the stroke power as the flywheel is spinning too fast but even that's not absolutely guaranteed to happen.

Thanks Danger. This is the information I was searching for.

[Tsnor]

TLDR version: I set DF = 115, don't adjust DF for minor changes from 115, and likely won't adjust DF higher or lower with age.

OTW oars tend to be set at around 115 to 120 DF at race pace, even for Olympians. OTW oars have higher DF when the boat is just starting, DF drops as boat pace increases. Based on something Eric Murray said on his youtube channel.

This study says "Comparisons across all six submaximal stages showed no significant difference between D(100) and D(150) for any of the variables measured" where D(100) is drag factor 100 and D(150) is drag factor 150. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17990205/ Meaning no exercise benefits from changing DF.

Someone (two people?) on this forum did a test where he used a bunch of different DFs, pulled constant split and measured his heart rate for each DF. His HR was the same at the same split regardless of DF. Conclusion was rowing was equally efficient at all the different DFs.

I once did a 2K at DF84 by accident (boathouse erg). No change in 2K time, but this could be biased by me rowing at the rate I expected to be able to row. The high school winter coach set all the boathouse ergs to 100. My home erg got set years ago at 115 and doesn't get adjusted. Temp difference in the garage can change DF 10 points or more. I don't care. I'm waiting to lose 10 DF points due to dust before cleaning and resetting. Last workout shows DF at 114 at 50F, it'll probably be below 110 in the summer from hotter less dense air.

There is anecdotal evidence that higher DF will give you better max performance on very short sprints. There is also anecdotal evidence that higher DF has a higher injury risk (higher torque on start of piece).

[MPx]

Based on something Eric Murray said on his youtube channel.

In July 2018 C2 did a blog quoting a number of Olympians about their use of Drag Factor. Eric posted:

“When I used the Concept2 Indoor Rower I always used a 130 drag. To be honest, that number just comes from the New Zealand program and it was a standard when I first started looking to make the team as a junior. The 130 number would be what you would have to do a trials erg on. So it just became a norm for all the training and pieces and ultimately the 2000 meter pieces we did.

We played around at times with different damper in training. We spent a lot of time doing it on ‘1’ and really feeling the speed on the flywheel. It teaches you to really be connected and not have too much slip around the front, or you miss the speed for the stroke. We did more of that than power strokes [on 10]. Most of the power strokes we did were with bungees on the water.

So 130 was the magical number I did everything at. All my long distance World Records I’ve got were at 130 and my 2k was at 130. It’s an interesting thought as to what people do around the world and I would say it’s very specific to people’s abilities and strengths and the ways they row the machine.”

[Tsnor]

Based on something Eric Murray said on his youtube channel.

In July 2018 C2 did a blog quoting a number of Olympians about their use of Drag Factor. Eric posted:

“When I used the Concept2 Indoor Rower I always used a 130 drag.

TY for the correction, which I agree with. This was the Eddy Murry video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEqWFHH1yeU