Is there a physiological reason I'm awful on the ski erg?

[jon melson]

Please don't all jump on me until you've read the below!

I joined a local gym six weeks ago just to use the Ski Erg, and despite doing two sessions per week and being a generally fit guy, I am hopeless.

Background:
When using the row erg regularly my 2k was 6:24, 500m 1:21.
My 5k run is around 18:30
I do a lot of gym work for strength, upper & lower (best deadlift of 220kg, bench 150kg)

Only 'rowed' a marathon once, but it was sub 3hr (2:03 pace)

Last Sunday I averaged 195w on the bike/turbo for 3hrs, av HR 128bpm.

So I'm hardly elite, but I'm not a novice.

Yet I can barely hold any sort of power on the ski erg, and the only way I can describe it, it feels like I can't breathe.

The down stroke compromises my exhale, and during the recovery I'm unable to effectively fill my lungs. It feels like I'm holding my breath.

Have any of the experienced ski erg'ers out there every come across anything like this?
Something is very, very wrong and I just can't fathom it.

[Cyclingman1]

You're just not used to it. First couple of times I used a SkiErg, the pace was really slow. You have to learn the stroke, as in using a rower. In a way, you have to make a more pronounced effort with SkiErg. Really emphasize arm pulldown, back bend, and crouch. It's doubtful that you will be as fast as on a rower.

[RayOfSunshine]

You're just not used to it. First couple of times I used a SkiErg, the pace was really slow. You have to learn the stroke, as in using a rower. In a way, you have to make a more pronounced effort with SkiErg. Really emphasize arm pulldown, back bend, and crouch. It's doubtful that you will be as fast as on a rower.

This is my experience as well. I went through all 24 weeks of the beginner Pete Plan using the SkiErg. I really had to focus on my form and breathing.

[jamesg]

There's a few different ways of poling, at least on snow; maybe breathing has to adapt to the differing rhythms.

Found a book called My Breathing System, JP Muller, printed in Milan, Sterling and Kupfer 1927, written 1914. There are chapters for short, medium and long distance runners, walkers, fast skaters, boxers, swimmers and for oarsmen and distance skaters, singers and orators.

The preface opens with: It is for me surprising that I must add a new volume to the existing vast literature on "The Art of Breathing". Most of it seems like tracts, so I'm adding another for ordinary people's use.

[hikeplusrow]

Don't want to hijack this thread, but there's something that's always mystified me about the SkiErg. Does it really replicate the equivalent movement in skiing? On the SkiErg you're pulling down, whereas if you were skiing you'd be pushing the poles into the snow. What am I missing?

[gvcormac]

I'm trying to reconcile the advice I've seen with basic physics.

Recovery is wasted effort.

When you row, recovery is horizontal, so you just have to get your body moving and stop it again. This takes energy, but a relatively small fraction of your stroke energy.

When you ski, recovery is vertical. You move most of your mass (thighs, hips, torso, arms) up. That takes way more energy than rowing recovery.

I personally try to minimize this by bending my knees as little as possible and concentrating on the hip hinge, so that the total mass being moved is just torso (times 1/2 if hips stay still) + arms. That way I hit my aerobic threshold at a faster pace (but still slower than rowing).

I think a higher drag factor might help as well, as pulling (hinging) harder allows you to harness more of the potential energy from lifting your bodyweight during recovery.

[jon melson]

Thank you all for the answers.

Unfortunately I'm unable to follow a dedicated 'erg program as I do a lot of different sports, and most programs out there include 5 or 6 days training- as well as having no compensation for other training stress.

I've twice tried following traditional cycling training programs, and twice ended up in a horribly over trained state.

I think there's certainly a mechanical breathing issue (think of holding a kettlebell for a goblet squat, that's the effect the ski erg has), and I can 100% get the point about the 'recovery' actually not being much of a recovery...

I'm still very keen to hear from more people as I've been around the block enough times to know this is more than simply a case of needing to put more time in.

95% of people who can swim assume everybody floats, but it's just not the case.

I was born with a congenital heart defect which wasn't diagnosed until I was 35.
Funny how many people told me how I felt during exercise was normal, but post corrective surgery I smashed my PBs and started winning races!

I'm not saying my dire ski erg performances are due to something that serious, but it's like that ol' saying.

"When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".