Strength training and the row machine

[Ravestorm]

Hi there, was hoping people here could help me out with a training schedule question in regards to rowing as I couldnt find the exact information elsewhere...

I currently do not do any rowing (also not looking at making it my main form of exercise) but I have a concept 2 at home and have done a fair bit of rowing for cardio purposes only in the recent past.

I am currently doing resistance training via body weight exercises on Mon, Wed and Fri and brisk walking on Wed, Fri and Sun. Now my question is if I was to swap out my resistance training workout on Wednesday and make it a 30 minute rowing workout would I still get decent benefits that rowing brings from just that one workout per week.

I am hoping by throwing in that one rowing workout a week it will help keep my body guessing so it doesnt adapt too quickly to my resistance training exercises, but at the same time I want that one rowing workout a week to count as enough benefits in itself for my body since I am already doing enough cardio via walking.

Thank you for any help you can offer

[Sakly]

First of all: what's your goal? For me it sounds you "only" want to move and stay relatively fit/don't want to degrade physically. In this case it doesn't matter what you do, as long it brings fun. Most bang for buck is given by strength training.

[hikeplusrow]

I'm 63, and as the years roll by I become less inclined to do forms of exercise that I don't enjoy, just because I 'should'. I love cardio and walking, so that's what I do. I do very little stretching (can't stand it) and no weights/resistance work (have done a lot in the past, but it causes too many niggles, aches and pains, and I've never found a 'system' that works for me).

So called 'full body' cardio does partially make up for a lack of resistance work, and this is one of the reasons I own a RowErg. Also good are elliptical, Nordic ski and Versaclimber (if you can find one) machines. Actually, I'd buy a Versaclimber, and probably will when I move.

Walking is a much maligned exercise, which admittedly has generally limited cardio benefits for fit individuals (unless you're able to pull in prolonged uphill sections (think fell walking and mountaineering), but is tremendous for bone density, wonderful for mental health, and certainly has cardio benefits for the less fit.

[Ombrax]

Walking is a much maligned exercise, which admittedly has generally limited cardio benefits for fit individuals (unless you're able to pull in prolonged uphill sections (think fell walking and mountaineering), but is tremendous for bone density, wonderful for mental health, and certainly has cardio benefits for the less fit.

I've had two issues with walking that in my case have ruled it out as a useful exercise. (although it is enjoyable, and can be done in just about any weather)

1) I'm by no means a cardio god, but I've found that I have to "walk" insanely hard / fast to get my HR up. I put walk in quotes because at that point it's hard to call it walking. (my knees preclude actual running)

2) I've been a cyclist and rower for a long time, but when COVID shut down the gyms I tried to start walking, in hopes that my knees permitting, I might eventually transition to running. Before that I'd never had any issues with my feet, but as I ramped up my walking and started to push off harder and faster on each step I developed a problem in my left foot that was moderately painful. A podiatrist diagnosed it as a tendon or ligament (I can't remember the details) that was pulling away from one of the countless bones in there. I attributed it to my walking and had to dial back the intensity. Shortly after that my gym re-opened and I was able to get back on the erg, and thankfully the issue has never returned.

[Ravestorm]

Hey thanks for the quick replies...you are right in assuming I dont want to degrade as even though I am only in my late 40's I still feel I need to start putting on that muscle before it becomes a much harder endeavor later on in life.

I opted for a body weight routine over a weights version because I prefer compound exercises body weight brings over isolated exercises weights bring, with one exception, I do use kettlebells for farmers walks and with all this in mind my goal is really to be the fittest I can be using these particular tools and throwing in the walking for the slightly extra fat burn and benefits of a combined strength/cardio schedule.

The reason I asked about the rowing machine is because I do like the particular benefits it brings to the table but due to my work schedule and strength/walk training schedule I already have in place it leaves me the option to either do 2 days of rowing on tuesdays and thrusdays which isnt really desirable because they are my recovery days from strength training and that leaves me to cut back one of my strength training days for a rowing day, hence why I opted for wednesday and curious if one day a week of rowing was worth it, even if for the calorie burn alone?

It might be that one day a week of rowing is not enough to balance out the cutting back of 3 strength training days down to 2?

[Ombrax]

I'm no expert, but I think even just one session rowing session a week will help.

Having said that, there's no reason you can't do rowing and resistance / body-weight exercises the same day. For example, I typically exercise 3x a week, and alternate cardio and weightlifting emphasis on each of my workout, however, I do row on each day I exercise. If it's a cardio day I do a quick core routine, then on the erg either some intervals (fairly hard) or a longer less intense session. If I have time I'll also do some KB Turkish Get-Ups. My next workout is therefore core + weightlifting. After that I do about 15-20 minutes on the erg, moderately hard. My next session is back to cardio emphasis, and so on.

I'm sure that you can fit a rower into your routine, and as long as you're motivated to use it and have the time you'll find that it's a great addition to your exercise program.

Good Luck

[Sakly]

Bodyweight training over weights training is absolutely fine, I do the same. I incorporate heavy basic strength exercises, such as deadlifts and squats, but other stuff is mainly bodyweight.
For my cardio rowing is the way to go, 3-4 times/week typically 50-70k, and that's really effective (much more than walking). If it brings the same fun is a personal question and not to be answered here.
As I wrote, most bang for the buck is given by (intense) strength training, so I wouldn't cut back a strength session to get only 1 rowing session in, as a single session per week will not have a huge benefit. If you want to incorporate rowing I would exchange walking sessions, at least two, but it sounds you don't like that idea.

[Ombrax]

If you want to incorporate rowing I would exchange walking sessions, at least two, but it sounds you don't like that idea.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Unless the walking is done purely as a "do something instead of nothing at all" rest day, in terms of cardio benefit rowing is IMO superior.

[Dangerscouse]

If you want to incorporate rowing I would exchange walking sessions, at least two, but it sounds you don't like that idea.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. Unless the walking is done purely as a "do something instead of nothing at all" rest day, in terms of cardio benefit rowing is IMO superior.

+2

[hikeplusrow]

+3 I love walking, but only do it twice a week. I do seven cardio sessions of which five are RowErg. You've got a rower, my advice would be to make fuller use of it.

[jcross485]

Hi there, was hoping people here could help me out with a training schedule question in regards to rowing as I couldnt find the exact information elsewhere...

I currently do not do any rowing (also not looking at making it my main form of exercise) but I have a concept 2 at home and have done a fair bit of rowing for cardio purposes only in the recent past.

I am currently doing resistance training via body weight exercises on Mon, Wed and Fri and brisk walking on Wed, Fri and Sun. Now my question is if I was to swap out my resistance training workout on Wednesday and make it a 30 minute rowing workout would I still get decent benefits that rowing brings from just that one workout per week.

I am hoping by throwing in that one rowing workout a week it will help keep my body guessing so it doesnt adapt too quickly to my resistance training exercises, but at the same time I want that one rowing workout a week to count as enough benefits in itself for my body since I am already doing enough cardio via walking.

Thank you for any help you can offer

Hey thanks for the quick replies...you are right in assuming I dont want to degrade as even though I am only in my late 40's I still feel I need to start putting on that muscle before it becomes a much harder endeavor later on in life.

I opted for a body weight routine over a weights version because I prefer compound exercises body weight brings over isolated exercises weights bring, with one exception, I do use kettlebells for farmers walks and with all this in mind my goal is really to be the fittest I can be using these particular tools and throwing in the walking for the slightly extra fat burn and benefits of a combined strength/cardio schedule.

The reason I asked about the rowing machine is because I do like the particular benefits it brings to the table but due to my work schedule and strength/walk training schedule I already have in place it leaves me the option to either do 2 days of rowing on tuesdays and thrusdays which isnt really desirable because they are my recovery days from strength training and that leaves me to cut back one of my strength training days for a rowing day, hence why I opted for wednesday and curious if one day a week of rowing was worth it, even if for the calorie burn alone?

It might be that one day a week of rowing is not enough to balance out the cutting back of 3 strength training days down to 2?

A lot to unpack but a few things -

1). I don't think you will get the same cardiovascular benefit from walking as you would from rowing as you really won't get HR into a consistent Z1-Z2 range from walking if you are fit. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with walking and doing lots of it - it is good for you! Just not as good as rowing when it comes to cardiovascular work.

2). If you are insistent on keeping a lot of walking in, I would highly recommend investing in a weight vest or ruck so that you can load your walks a bit. This will help increase HR a bit more and also build a bit more strength, durability, etc. I prefer the weight vest as I use it to load bodyweight strength work as well - things like pullups, pushups, dips, lunges, squats, etc.

3). You can't "keep your body guessing". Things just don't work that way. Yes, you can plateau if you don't try to add some kind of progression strategy but keeping your body guessing by subbing one strength session for one rowing session will not make the strength training more effective. If anything, and more than likely, it will negatively impact the strength training. If you want to "keep your body guessing", vary set/rep schemes and loading with keeping some kind of general, upward progression over time.

4). One time a week rowing is not enough to truly see the benefit either (IMO). One time is better than zero but the more I get into the erg, the more I am seeing that you need to be on it pretty frequently, even if only for a short period of time, as it's so technique heavy.

In general, it seems like you want to be good at a lot of things and be well rounded with health and fitness. I don't see anything wrong with that - in fact, it's good to not be strong without endurance and vice versa. You would just have to accept that by pursuing multiple modalities, you'll never be as good at one as you would be with more focus.

To piggyback on Sakly's point too, the single best thing you can do is strength training, if you have to choose. There's no reason that you can't strength train and improve endurance through cardiovascular training but strength is paramount. I came into rowing with a pretty large "strength reserve", meaning I was much stronger than I was cardiovascularly fit, therefore I spend less time on strength and am in "maintenance / prevent degradation" mode as opposed to "build" mode.

[Dangerscouse]

A lot to unpack but a few things -

1). I don't think you will get the same cardiovascular benefit from walking as you would from rowing as you really won't get HR into a consistent Z1-Z2 range from walking if you are fit. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with walking and doing lots of it - it is good for you! Just not as good as rowing when it comes to cardiovascular work.

2). If you are insistent on keeping a lot of walking in, I would highly recommend investing in a weight vest or ruck so that you can load your walks a bit. This will help increase HR a bit more and also build a bit more strength, durability, etc. I prefer the weight vest as I use it to load bodyweight strength work as well - things like pullups, pushups, dips, lunges, squats, etc.

3). You can't "keep your body guessing". Things just don't work that way. Yes, you can plateau if you don't try to add some kind of progression strategy but keeping your body guessing by subbing one strength session for one rowing session will not make the strength training more effective. If anything, and more than likely, it will negatively impact the strength training. If you want to "keep your body guessing", vary set/rep schemes and loading with keeping some kind of general, upward progression over time.

4). One time a week rowing is not enough to truly see the benefit either (IMO). One time is better than zero but the more I get into the erg, the more I am seeing that you need to be on it pretty frequently, even if only for a short period of time, as it's so technique heavy.

In general, it seems like you want to be good at a lot of things and be well rounded with health and fitness. I don't see anything wrong with that - in fact, it's good to not be strong without endurance and vice versa. You would just have to accept that by pursuing multiple modalities, you'll never be as good at one as you would be with more focus.

To piggyback on Sakly's point too, the single best thing you can do is strength training, if you have to choose. There's no reason that you can't strength train and improve endurance through cardiovascular training but strength is paramount. I came into rowing with a pretty large "strength reserve", meaning I was much stronger than I was cardiovascularly fit, therefore I spend less time on strength and am in "maintenance / prevent degradation" mode as opposed to "build" mode.

A great reply, JC. Really good

[Ravestorm]

Hey guys, thank you so much for the very informative posts, truly did help me make some definitive choices in my schedule...will definitely stay with 3 strength training days and will sub a couple of my walking sessions with rowing sessions instead of just the one session I initially was going to go with.

I definitely like the idea of wearing a weighted vest to keep an ongoing progression with my strength training.

Again, thank you so much everyone for the replies and good luck in your own endeavors

[jcross485]

Hey guys, thank you so much for the very informative posts, truly did help me make some definitive choices in my schedule...will definitely stay with 3 strength training days and will sub a couple of my walking sessions with rowing sessions instead of just the one session I initially was going to go with.

I definitely like the idea of wearing a weighted vest to keep an ongoing progression with my strength training.

Again, thank you so much everyone for the replies and good luck in your own endeavors

I've found the community here really helpful and informative - I would recommend posting snapshots or summaries of your rows in the "What training have you done today" thread as I have learned a lot from others by doing so myself.

I'm coming up on 2.5mil meters on the erg, almost 1.5mil meters this season (May 1 to current) - looking back to some of the pieces I had last season compared to this, as well as posting within the big thread and getting both encouragement and feedback, there has been a massive improvement in performance (steady state pace improving by :01-:03 / 500m...but at a HR of 10 - 15bpm lower).

[jamesg]

a 30 minute rowing workout would I still get decent benefits that rowing brings from just that one workout per week.

Depends how you do it. A 30' rate 20 piece can be one of the hardest.

Can you paddle at 3W/kg at low rates? If 80kg that's 240W, pace 1:54 and almost 8k in the half hour.

You'd be using your strength, won hard elsewhere; and rowing is one of the few systems available for actually doing that. Strength is surely a means, not an end.