How do I assess if I'm properly recovered and rested ?

[jrkob]

Apologies for the question if it sounds a bit silly, but I am looking for objective ways - if this exists at all - of determining if I'm properly (1) recovered and (2) rested from a rowing session and ready to move to the next one.
By recovered, I mean that my muscles and joints have recovered from the last row.
By rested, I mean that my energy level is back up.

Are there obvious ones I should consider ?

I was initially thinking that HR when iddling in front of the computer would be a good indicator, as in if it is higher than usual, I'm probably not well recovered yet, and vice versa. However last night I went wine partying so I know that although my muscles and joints may have recovered from the last rown, I am not well rested, my sleep was short and of poor quality. Yet my HR as I type this is, to my surprise, below what it is in general. So just HR itself doesn't seem to be a reliable enough indicator.

What prompts the question is that it has been suggested to me in other threads to build more recovering time in my weekly exercise plan, and I'm trying to understand what would be the best way to do that.

Any pointers, please let me know. Thank you.

[Erik A]

probably not that relevant but when i did a half marathon run/walk on the weekend when complete my watch told me that i had to rest until wednesday afternoon.

[Ombrax]

I read somewhere that if you track your HR first thing in the morning over a long period of time a slow increase in that waking value is a sign of over-training. Don't know if that's true or not, but you can probably find out with a bit of online research.

[jrkob]

probably not that relevant but when i did a half marathon run/walk on the weekend when complete my watch told me that i had to rest until wednesday afternoon.

Actually it is very relevant, thanks for bringing up the watch subject.

My Garmin FR255 (which I got in February) is giving me what I initially thought were obscene suggested resting time. Like over 2 days for a 30' interval session. So, I was discarding those suggestions entirely. However, I'm now getting used to the type of performance I'm capable of and I do notice that when I discard a really long suggested resting time and just row the following day, my performance suffers. So, perhaps those suggested resting times are not garbage after all.

@iain if you read this, noted that apps probably stress recovery times so as not to overload the user. I understand the logic.

In other words, I don't know how reliable those Garmin suggested resting times are. Or how they can be used more effectively.

[jrkob]

I read somewhere that if you track your HR first thing in the morning over a long period of time a slow increase in that waking value is a sign of over-training. Don't know if that's true or not, but you can probably find out with a bit of online research.

Ok thanks for the suggestion, let me explore this.

One thing that I have observed: Garmin knows when I've been drinking the night before. This watch is like the serum of truth ! By this I mean that if I've been drinking the night before, the watch will - rightfully - show me a very low Sleep Score (generally below 25%), and this is accompagnied by a much higher RHR. The way Garmin computes their RHR is they take the lowest HR 30' period of the last 24hours, which therefore generally happens during the night. And in my case, this should be around 60 if I didn't drink alcohol the night before. Those nights I've been drinking, my RHR will jump to 70. In my case, the correlation between a jump in RHR and drinking alcohol the night before is 100%.

So basically, I know that a higher RHR is at least a sign of restlessness.

What I don't know is if a higher RHR could be the result of poor muscles/joints recovery too. I will explore this, thanks.

[Dangerscouse]

Ime, it's difficult to know for certain and it's more about intuition. I've seen my starting HR being about 8-10bpm higher than my normal range, but I've had a great session, and vice versa. Some of my best days have been on days I didn't want to train.

There is a really subtle difference between tiredness and laziness, and I can't explain it but you generally learn to know the difference, or at the very least you learn to adjust when you've started your session. To add another layer of complication, it can be advisable to keep going when you want to stop too.

My only advice is to try and learn the difference between tiredness and fatigue, as I've not personally found anything else that has been reliable. You'll get it wrong sometimes, but that's OK

[Sakly]

Ime, it's difficult to know for certain and it's more about intuition. I've seen my starting HR being about 8-10bpm higher than my normal range, but I've had a great session, and vice versa. Some of my best days have been on days I didn't want to train.

There is a really subtle difference between tiredness and laziness, and I can't explain it but you generally learn to know the difference, or at the very least you learn to adjust when you've started your session. To add another layer of complication, it can be advisable to keep going when you want to stop too.

My only advice is to try and learn the difference between tiredness and fatigue, as I've not personally found anything else that has been reliable. You'll get it wrong sometimes, but that's OK

Fully agree and couldn't have written better.

[jrkob]

My only advice is to try and learn the difference between tiredness and fatigue

Okay, let me research this as I don't presently know the difference. Thank you for the suggestion.

[JaapvanE]

As you are using a Garmin FR255, I would consider Body Battery and Heartrate Variability (HRV). Starting the day with an nearly empty Body Battery is a pretty strong sign you should take an easy or even complete rest day. An unbalanced HRV is a clear sign you are not ready recovering.

Another to look at is training load. When you add the PM5 to your Garmin as a "Smart trainer" sensor and activate a rowing workout when rowing, your training load is calculated correctly as well. It takes about 4 weeks of data to become usefull, but getting outside the green band with your acute load is a clear indication you are pushing too hard and become injury prone.

As an indication: Body battery is the only thing that is on my watchface (aside time). It predicted a day ahead when I got Influenza, and it also predicted a lot of other moments of illness or poor shape. So to me, it is an important indicator.

[jrkob]

As you are using a Garmin FR255, I would consider Body Battery and Heartrate Variability (HRV). Starting the day with an nearly empty Body Battery is a pretty strong sign you should take an easy or even complete rest day. An unbalanced HRV is a clear sign you are not ready recovering.

Another to look at is training load. When you add the PM5 to your Garmin as a "Smart trainer" sensor and activate a rowing workout when rowing, your training load is calculated correctly as well. It takes about 4 weeks of data to become usefull, but getting outside the green band with your acute load is a clear indication you are pushing too hard and become injury prone.

Ok yes my understanding is that Body Battery is the same thing as HRV, but the data are presented on a 0-100% scale instead of an absolute (and hard to grasp) number. Because of too much wine last night my Body Battery this morning when I woke up was 25%, and now at 1pm, it is 6%. So I decided not to go exercise today. One day wasted, and I feel like sh*t today. Alcohol is HRV destructor.

I have a PM4, which I do not think has the Smart trainer you speak of but I am going to double check later this afternoon.

However, my FR255 does give me a training load after each row. Do you happen to know how accurate that is ? Is it complete garbage ? I think the issue is that I cannot connect the PM4 to ErgData (I tried and it wouldn't connect, I then read on Concept2's website that it needs a "key", which I don't have because the rowing machine isn't mine, it was purchased by the gym in my building 10 years ago and folks say they don't have any key. Anyway).
So basically my watch is getting limited info on my rowing. Let me see: total time rowed, total strokes, stroke rate, HR data, all of this is probably quite accurate. What it doesn't have, is pace data.

[JaapvanE]

Ok yes my understanding is that Body Battery is the same thing as HRV, but the data are presented on a 0-100% scale instead of an absolute (and hard to grasp) number.

I don't have that impression, but I could be wrong. HRV ranges between two values and can be balanced or unbalanced, body battery can be poor regardless. They do some extra things there I think.

Because of too much wine last night my Body Battery this morning when I woke up was 25%, and now at 1pm, it is 6%. So I decided not to go exercise today. One day wasted, and I feel like sh*t today. Alcohol is HRV destructor.

Sounds like aiming for a PB today might lead to dissapointment, that is for sure. If I were you, I'd do a very easy long row and see where you end up, or when you are close to 0, skip it all together.

I have a PM4, which I do not think has the Smart trainer you speak of but I am going to double check later this afternoon.

Good point, on this website they indicate it has the hardware: https://www.thisisant.com/directory/model-d-with-pm4/ but also point to limited support for profiles.

However, my FR255 does give me a training load after each row. Do you happen to know how accurate that is ? Is it complete garbage ? I think the issue is that I cannot connect the PM4 to ErgData (I tried and it wouldn't connect, I then read on Concept2's website that it needs a "key", which I don't have because the rowing machine isn't mine, it was purchased by the gym in my building 10 years ago and folks say they don't have any key. Anyway).
So basically my watch is getting limited info on my rowing. Let me see: total time rowed, total strokes, stroke rate, HR data, all of this is probably quite accurate. What it doesn't have, is pace data.

A PM4 should be able to connect to the old ErgData via a USB cable.

For training load, the key indicator seems to be HR. I don't see much difference in calculated load between an easy row with high HR due to heat or exhaustion and a strong one where I'm fit. It makes sense in some way: power is an output, but if I produce it in an ineffective way, I still get tired.

Training load is basically a numerical presentation how hard you push yourself. They basically distinguish between a Chronic Load (a weighed average of your load for the last 42 days) and your Acute Load (last 7 days). When all is calibrated and your Acute load is much higher then your Chronic Load, the training load peaks too early: your body gets a recovery need thatis much higher than before,making it much more risky.

[jrkob]

For training load, the key indicator seems to be HR. I don't see much difference in calculated load between an easy row with high HR due to heat or exhaustion and a strong one where I'm fit. It makes sense in some way: power is an output, but if I produce it in an ineffective way, I still get tired.

Ok I understand the logic, makes sense. In your experience, does the training load as given by your watch for a given exercise in the same ballpark as the one calculated by the PM5 roughly ? If the only meaningful data used is HR, I would think both should be very close.

Training load is basically a numerical presentation how hard you push yourself. They basically distinguish between a Chronic Load (a weighed average of your load for the last 42 days) and your Acute Load (last 7 days). When all is calibrated and your Acute load is much higher then your Chronic Load, the training load peaks too early: your body gets a recovery need thatis much higher than before,making it much more risky.

Ok I understand. This is what I have:

[GlennUk]

This is interesting, my training plan includes 5 exercising days and two rest days. The plan also sets out that if you need more rest days take them.

I wanted to weight train consistently and because of the duration of the exercise days its not practical for me to fit them in on the exercise days, so i decided to use the rest days, after all it is a rest from rowing. I too have a Garmin (Descent G1) and whist i don't wear it all the time, i do wear it when exercising and when sleeping.

I haven't added the PM5 as a smart trainer sensor, but i have been linking my H10 HRM to my watch (and PM5) when erging, setting the watch to the indoor rowing activity.

I too had noticed what i considered to be unreasonably long 'rest' periods and had assumed they were designed to avoid Garmin being sued if a wearer keeled over, rather than as a serious training guide. This was on the basis that the training programme i am following was developed by a professional sports physiologist, and I had not felt unduly tired or fatigued.

Since introducing weights on what were supposed to be rest days, I have noticed a decline in the HRV value, and has dropped and is now out of balance, although i cannot say i am noticing any impact on either my erging or weight lifting performance. Looking back at the data it seems that i have been moving into unbalanced territory over the past 7 days or so.

Be interesting to see how it varies, one way or the other over the coming weeks.

Edit : P.S. the Garmin app tells my to increase the frequency or duration to improve my fitness, whilst at the same time telling me to add some recovery measures!

[jamesg]

determining if I'm properly (1) recovered and (2) rested from a rowing session and ready to move to the next one.

No need. Work hard and short; and two rest days a week. The basic need in training is overload, not quantity.

As well as Watts, we can use Ergdata to see stroke length and average handle force. Keep both as high as possible so that you can be sure of a training effect without doing too much mileage and getting needlessly tired.

These are training plans for rowing:
https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/

[jrkob]

determining if I'm properly (1) recovered and (2) rested from a rowing session and ready to move to the next one.

No need. Work hard and short; and two rest days a week. The basic need in training is overload, not quantity.

As well as Watts, we can use Ergdata to see stroke length and average handle force. Keep both as high as possible so that you can be sure of a training effect without doing too much mileage and getting needlessly tired.

These are training plans for rowing:
https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/

Thanks james yes you have posted those training plans in another thread earlier today I think it was and I did have a look at them.
Just to be clear, are we saying that steady sessions are superfluous ? Because there's a problem: they're the only ones that lower my blood pressure consistently, and this is my primary goal. Above any other secondary goals.