Your help please

[Sakly]

A beginners question: In the video of the OP, it seems to me that the legs, back an arms during the drive
follow each other without any overlap.
When I do that, the drive doesn't feel like a continuous movement but rather like 3 seperate movements.
When I do the drive with a bit of overlap between the 3 parts, it feels much more "fluid".
Please let me know if that is good or bad.

The movements need to overlap. The drills with separation of the movements is only to get you actively moving the right portions of your body in the right manner.
When rowing with full movement there is more or less overlap from person to person as different techniques are used. I think I have a huge overlap of leg drive and hip hinge. OTW this could be a problem, OTE it is not.

[Dangerscouse]

A beginners question: In the video of the OP, it seems to me that the legs, back an arms during the drive
follow each other without any overlap.
When I do that, the drive doesn't feel like a continuous movement but rather like 3 seperate movements.
When I do the drive with a bit of overlap between the 3 parts, it feels much more "fluid".
Please let me know if that is good or bad.

Imo, always aim to have overlap. It's like a relay race, and you need to transfer the power. That fluid feeling is what you're aiming for, as it's more efficient and will, to some extent, reduce injury risk

[NickB65]

Hi to all - and i'm really grateful for all the replies - all of which are incredibly helpful. To respond to the comments:

I'm 5' 7" 60Kg. S/R in the vid was 23/24 and drag 135.

I was purposely slow and deliberate on the drive as I wanted to have my form checked, knowing that (at this stage) the more effort I put in the more my form would deteriorate!

I have felt that i'm hunched (as some commented) - but if i sit more upright, then I struggle to get the length - i need to work on this.

Since posting I have put more effort into the drive whilst keeping my core tight and trying to focus in the hip hinge. I treat it like a deadlift, which i am very proficient in - pushing my feet away rather than pulling - but trying to be more explosive. I feel like i'm putting huge effort in - yet watching v good rowers, it seems effortless - like all top athletes the better they are, the less effort they appear to employ!

Overall, I think i'm struggling with the hip hinge part of the sequence as much as anything - any cues/tips on this would be really helpful.

Thanks again to everyone - i'm planning on making another short vid in the next week or two.

Cheers
Nick

[Dangerscouse]

I'm 5' 7" 60Kg. S/R in the vid was 23/24 and drag 135.

I was purposely slow and deliberate on the drive as I wanted to have my form checked, knowing that (at this stage) the more effort I put in the more my form would deteriorate!

I have felt that i'm hunched (as some commented) - but if i sit more upright, then I struggle to get the length - i need to work on this.

Since posting I have put more effort into the drive whilst keeping my core tight and trying to focus in the hip hinge. I treat it like a deadlift, which i am very proficient in - pushing my feet away rather than pulling - but trying to be more explosive. I feel like i'm putting huge effort in - yet watching v good rowers, it seems effortless - like all top athletes the better they are, the less effort they appear to employ!

Overall, I think i'm struggling with the hip hinge part of the sequence as much as anything - any cues/tips on this would be really helpful.

I'd lower the drag to 110-115 and see if that helps.

To get greater length, you can pull the handle higher up. I don't do that, but I've seen some people pull it close to their neck. Also, you do have some length to gain by compressing your legs a bit more. You can get shins to vertical, rather than trying to keep your heels down.

Hip hinge will start (roughly) when your hands pass over your knees. This is the start of the primary power from your upper body, rather than just the secondary power. Very similar to the deadlift.

For a seemingly simple exercise it is surprisingly technical and you will leak power in a number of ways. Keep the grip as loose as possible (I only hook my hands). Keep the shoulders tense and loose (it will make sense when you get more experienced). Keep the core tense enough, but not too tense (again, this comes with experience.

I'm a very big fan of rowing eyes closed so you can turn most of your focus internally. This will allow you to really consider the 'feel' of muscles and posture. I do know that not everyone can do it, as some people get motion sickness, but it might be worth trying.

[jamesg]

I treat it like a deadlift, which i am very proficient in - pushing my feet away rather than pulling - but trying to be more explosive.

Perfect. It's the legs that do the work when rowing and erging. Boats and flyweels spin fast, and we have to catch up, on the static erg moving our entire body mass at the catch to do so. The quicker this is done, the longer the stroke. Get your weight on your feet before the catch, by swinging forward early in the recovery, and the catch thrust can then be quick and continuous.

Pulling the handle higher at the finish means using the arms more; this takes time, so I think it's better to keep the finish short and get to the next catch sooner; legs and hips probably contain about five if not ten times as much muscle as arms. Some boats rate even 44 in a 2k, and that's not done by lengthening the finish. That style was already out of fashion in the 1950s.

watching v good rowers, it seems effortless

It is once you get used to it, or seems so: rowing takes us well into the endorphine zone.

[p_b82]

I'm not sure if you said you did this or not, but the pick and reverse pick drill can be very useful to separate each stage and practice them independently & then you can look to piece them together for the whole stroke.

I've lower back issues, and typically hunch being tall, so I had to be very careful not to carry this bad habit into my rowing. Setting myself up on the rowing at the start really helps me - until I get tired and I feel myself slouch down.

But I typically set myself with a straight back hinging forwards to strap in - not hunching over; I then stay hinged forwards and extend my legs straight - I settle my bum in the forward hinged position with a straight back; and slide back and forth a few time to vertical shins to make sure that my "power" position is strong. (if I don't get the muscles set right under my sit bones it causes me discomfort is the main reason; but I've noticed a much stronger leg drive as a consequence)

I do then faff with other stuff, headphones in, fan on, relax a touch, letting my hr drop as low as it will, and then slide forward, grab the handle and go.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm not sure if you said you did this or not, but the pick and reverse pick drill can be very useful to separate each stage and practice them independently & then you can look to piece them together for the whole stroke.

+1

I've never done it, but I have heard it recommended on numerous occasions by others.

[EarthRower]

I'm a very big fan of rowing eyes closed so you can turn most of your focus internally. This will allow you to really consider the 'feel' of muscles and posture. I do know that not everyone can do it, as some people get motion sickness, but it might be worth trying.

I tried eyes closed this morning during my 30 minutes easy workout. I couldn't close my eyes for the entire duration because it made me somewhat uneasy, and without reference to objects in space, I was not confident about my position during the catch. However, I appreciated the heightened attention I had for the rowing motion and will try it more.

[Dangerscouse]

I tried eyes closed this morning during my 30 minutes easy workout. I couldn't close my eyes for the entire duration because it made me somewhat uneasy, and without reference to objects in space, I was not confident about my position during the catch. However, I appreciated the heightened attention I had for the rowing motion and will try it more.

Much like unstrapped rowing, it takes a bit of getting used to. To start with, I used to occasionally look at the rail rather than the monitor when I did open my eyes, and/or row with eyes half closed.

[EarthRower]

I tried eyes closed this morning during my 30 minutes easy workout. I couldn't close my eyes for the entire duration because it made me somewhat uneasy, and without reference to objects in space, I was not confident about my position during the catch. However, I appreciated the heightened attention I had for the rowing motion and will try it more.

Much like unstrapped rowing, it takes a bit of getting used to. To start with, I used to occasionally look at the rail rather than the monitor when I did open my eyes, and/or row with eyes half closed.

I will try it next time. It's very meditative.

[GlennUk]

Just a thought, but your drive length is fixed by your legs, the stroke itself incorporating movement from the hips increases it slightly (i think) but you should be wary of striving for the longest stroke you physically can, if it results in unnatural reach at the catch and excessive leaning back at the finish i believe.

I am not entirely sure there is a particular benefit in making your stroke longer at the cost of good technique, i used to try to get my stroke longer by leaning forward at the catch. Given im carrying some soft muscle i think that this constrciuts my lower chest/abdomen impacitng on breathing, it wastn too much of a problem at easy workloads/short distances but when i stopped oing this icould feel the difference.

JMHO

Glenn

[Ombrax]

I agree with Glenn - your leg and torso length are what they are, don't distort your technique at the catch or the finish trying to gain a few more inches.