Zone 2/UTC2 training and first few minutes

[rainman]

When I start a row where I am planning to spend the whole time in heart rate zone 2 (60-70%) it takes a lot of harder rowing to initially get my HR up into that zone.

Just wondering if it is correct to do that- row hard straight off the bat to get into the desired HR zone as quickly as possible? (I have done a warm up first)

My curiosity arises as it feels like I might be working my muscles too hard and getting into a more anaerobic zone, which I think is something I want to avoid when doing zone 2 training.

[Sakly]

If done a warmup before I would assume the HR already elevated?

When I do steady states with low intensity I directly start to row without warmup. It typically takes 5min until HR levels out and stays in the desired range.

When you feel to work so hard, then probably your HR measurement is not sufficient? Steady state is typically 2k+25 or around that. Try to use this pace next time and see how it goes and your HR levels.

[KeithT]

I used to row harder at beginning of SS rows with HR cap to get up to the zone but like you found I worked too hard and then would have to keep slowing down to keep HR down. So, now I usually have a pace in mind that should keep HR in the zone and I start there and while HR may be a bit lower it gets where it needs to be and then I also don't worry if goes a little above at times and I find that I don't have the big slow down.

[gvcormac]

Percentage of max heart rate is a crude measure of how close you are to lactate threshold. At the outset, you will need to stay well below the target to avoid exceeding threshold. And the end when you experience cardiac drift, you may need to go beyond it. You're probably better off figuring out the optimal speed for your training, and sticking to that.

As your condition improves, your lactate threshold will increase, but your max heart rate won't (much, if any).

To figure out your optimal speed for training, judge where you're at by steady-state breathing rate (which should be comfortable) and muscle burn/fatigue (should be none). Figure out the speed that puts you just short of that, and stick to it. Re-evaluate from time to time.

[Tsnor]

Percentage of max heart rate is a crude measure of how close you are to lactate threshold. At the outset, you will need to stay well below the target to avoid exceeding threshold.

THIS ^^^^^

Figure out your pace (split) from a long session using HR, then use that split at the start of your zone 2 pieces.

Heart rate lags effort by minutes, you can't rely on it for the first 5-10 minutes of a zone 2 piece. Don't exceed your target split to try to get your HR to rise faster.

[p_b82]

I've always just started at the pace that I was planning on going at and just being happy to see - as I've improved my CV system - the time it takes to reach that point has extended.

I'm a long way off some of the super low HR's of folks here, but I'm already seeing that my pace for a given HR has improved.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm a long way off some of the super low HR's of folks here, but I'm already seeing that my pace for a given HR has improved.

Don't worry about a low HR, as that's just another form of comparison. It's got to be relative to you and no one else. There's someone on Insta who, IIRC, is a 6:26 2ker, certainly faster than me anyway, but his 2:06-2:08 pace HR is circa 15-20bpm higher than mine. This shows it's nice to look at, but it's not a governing factor in performance.

[jamesg]

My curiosity arises as it feels like I might be working my muscles too hard and getting into a more anaerobic zone, which I think is something I want to avoid when doing zone 2 training.

Zone 2 (aerobic), when rowing is at rates 20-23. However this may not be "light" if you pull a stroke that gives a training effect in terms of strength, endurance and style, especially if relatively unfit. In this case, keep the pieces short.

Warmup is done using a lower rating at lower work (= force x length), then easing into the training Work level when hot enough to make it relatively painless.

[GlennUk]

Just wondering if it is correct to do that- row hard straight off the bat to get into the desired HR zone as quickly as possible? (I have done a warm up first)

I use Hr training and i have often wondered this, or at least i did when i started. Mostly i warmup during the rep as opposed to adding another 10-15mins warmup on a set that will likley last min 50mins (the 1st reps are at low spm too).

Looking back at last session my HR took c.5mins to get to target in the 1st rep, thereafter the time to reach threshold is shorter, the session was 3x20min r 3:00 at different spm/HR values.

The only q I have which i keep thinking about is whether it is better to let the HR drift towards the end of the rep, or whether the training benefit is

[rainman]

The thing I'm struggling with, with this zone 2 stuff, is my heart rate isn't really getting into zone 2 until quite a long time after starting, because I dial back my effort due to my breathing suggesting I am going too hard. I'm using the advice I have read in many places that when in zone 2 I should be able to breathe through my nose, or hold a conversation.

For example:

I start rowing and target a pace of 2:40 as I know this will get my HR up but not be too much. After 5 or 10 minutes my HR is at about 100 bpm and so I think ok I need to up my pace to about 2:35 to get into my HR zone 2 (which is roughly 108 to 126 bpm). But when I increase my pace I feel my breathing deepening, and I feel like I need to start breathing through my mouth, and that I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation easily/comfortably, and so I dial back the pace again. But this means I am not really getting my HR into zone 2 until late in my row when I am tiring.

[Sakly]

The thing I'm struggling with, with this zone 2 stuff, is my heart rate isn't really getting into zone 2 until quite a long time after starting, because I dial back my effort due to my breathing suggesting I am going too hard. I'm using the advice I have read in many places that when in zone 2 I should be able to breathe through my nose, or hold a conversation.

For example:

I start rowing and target a pace of 2:40 as I know this will get my HR up but not be too much. After 5 or 10 minutes my HR is at about 100 bpm and so I think ok I need to up my pace to about 2:35 to get into my HR zone 2 (which is roughly 108 to 126 bpm). But when I increase my pace I feel my breathing deepening, and I feel like I need to start breathing through my mouth, and that I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation easily/comfortably, and so I dial back the pace again. But this means I am not really getting my HR into zone 2 until late in my row when I am tiring.

When I do my long "easy" rows I could never hold a full conversation neither breath through my nose.
I want to train a proper stroke which takes effort. Only the rest during the recovery is longer as the rating is far lower than in a race condition. I can talk during these rows for short sentences, but I don't want to and these are not my guidance points for the row and how hard I should go. I know a rough pace which matches my steady and this is my guidance. Additionally I use RPE to adapt to daily level of fitness.

[Dangerscouse]

I'm using the advice I have read in many places that when in zone 2 I should be able to breathe through my nose, or hold a conversation.

For example:

I start rowing and target a pace of 2:40 as I know this will get my HR up but not be too much. After 5 or 10 minutes my HR is at about 100 bpm and so I think ok I need to up my pace to about 2:35 to get into my HR zone 2 (which is roughly 108 to 126 bpm). But when I increase my pace I feel my breathing deepening, and I feel like I need to start breathing through my mouth, and that I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation easily/comfortably, and so I dial back the pace again. But this means I am not really getting my HR into zone 2 until late in my row when I am tiring.

I wouldn't worry about nasal breathing. It's great if you can, but it's not something that is a primary governor of the pace, imo. I have a mixture of both nose and mouth, and I'm happy with that.

I'd also say that holding a conversation can be at a level that you're slightly struggling, and it doesn't have to be as if you were talking to a work colleague kind of easy.

If I was you I'd aim for Zone 2 regardless of the breathing / conversation tests

[rainman]

I'm using the advice I have read in many places that when in zone 2 I should be able to breathe through my nose, or hold a conversation.

For example:

I start rowing and target a pace of 2:40 as I know this will get my HR up but not be too much. After 5 or 10 minutes my HR is at about 100 bpm and so I think ok I need to up my pace to about 2:35 to get into my HR zone 2 (which is roughly 108 to 126 bpm). But when I increase my pace I feel my breathing deepening, and I feel like I need to start breathing through my mouth, and that I wouldn't be able to hold a conversation easily/comfortably, and so I dial back the pace again. But this means I am not really getting my HR into zone 2 until late in my row when I am tiring.

I wouldn't worry about nasal breathing. It's great if you can, but it's not something that is a primary governor of the pace, imo. I have a mixture of both nose and mouth, and I'm happy with that.

I'd also say that holding a conversation can be at a level that you're slightly struggling, and it doesn't have to be as if you were talking to a work colleague kind of easy.

If I was you I'd aim for Zone 2 regardless of the breathing / conversation tests

Yeah, this is the conclusion I think I am arriving at.

[Tsnor]

All of the HR zones, breathing test, etc. assume that you've done enough rowing work for you body to be in balance.

If you are getting tired before you hit zone 2 heart rate then your rowing muscles are weak relative to your cardio system. Not a problem, over time your legs, back arms etc will catch up. No need to overcook your legs/back arms to catch up to your current cardio system strength. Use the long/slow time to build rowing technique instead of building cardio fitness.

Over time your rowing load will get stronger driving more O2 consumption driving HR up faster. Now you can use rowing to drive cardio improvements.

While you are getting there consider that no weight lifter does hard work on the same muscles two days in a row. They always insert one or more days of recovery. Do the same for your rowing muscles. If you can't get long/slow slow enough to avoid tiring out your rowing muscles then just skip it. Focus on 2 to 3 harder workouts with a day rest between until you have built up enough rowing muscle to drive up your heart rate.