Looking for general guidance for a newbie

[brians22]

I found that force curve takes time to dial in and to be consistent. As you use it more and more you will find the sweat spot and your technique will benefit from it. My haystack isn’t very pointy and is wider across the bottom and I am fine with that. As long as my haystack is smooth from beginning to end and resembles a haystack then I am happy. Between the force curve and using a heart rate monitor and staying within my chosen heart rate zone, I get a great workout every time and couldn’t ask for anything more from the rower. That is all the feedback I need for a great workout. Enjoy!

[EastClintwood]

Question regarding the force curve:

When you're doing steady state sessions, does your force curve have such a high top?
My force curve basically looks like the good curve, but way more stretched and flatter...

I can only get such a force curve (+ maybe a little front loaded) when I'm very explosive and powerful from the start, but then my pace is so fast that it's not steady state anymore...

E: I just watched this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ovL6KombI
Apparently my drag factor is to high to achieve that kind of curve during a SS session. I'm currently somewhere around DF 125. I'll give it a try tonight and drop the drag factor.

I lowered the DF yesterday, but i still can't get such a high curve while only doing SS pace. As soon as I push hard enough to reach such a curve, my pace drops down to ~2:00/500m while my SS pace is normally 2:10-2:15/500m.

Do you guys really achieve a high haystack curve while doing SS?

[Sakly]

Question regarding the force curve:

When you're doing steady state sessions, does your force curve have such a high top?
My force curve basically looks like the good curve, but way more stretched and flatter...

I can only get such a force curve (+ maybe a little front loaded) when I'm very explosive and powerful from the start, but then my pace is so fast that it's not steady state anymore...

E: I just watched this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ovL6KombI
Apparently my drag factor is to high to achieve that kind of curve during a SS session. I'm currently somewhere around DF 125. I'll give it a try tonight and drop the drag factor.

I lowered the DF yesterday, but i still can't get such a high curve while only doing SS pace. As soon as I push hard enough to reach such a curve, my pace drops down to ~2:00/500m while my SS pace is normally 2:10-2:15/500m.

Do you guys really achieve a high haystack curve while doing SS?

It's about the characteristics of the curve, not the height. A steady state session will not have the same work in each stroke compared to a PB attempt.
My steady state is around 170W at rate 18-20, so typically 9-10W each stroke. My 30r20 PB is 248W, so 12,4W each stroke. But the characteristic should stay the same.

[winniewinser]

Question regarding the force curve:

When you're doing steady state sessions, does your force curve have such a high top?
My force curve basically looks like the good curve, but way more stretched and flatter...

I can only get such a force curve (+ maybe a little front loaded) when I'm very explosive and powerful from the start, but then my pace is so fast that it's not steady state anymore...

E: I just watched this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88ovL6KombI
Apparently my drag factor is to high to achieve that kind of curve during a SS session. I'm currently somewhere around DF 125. I'll give it a try tonight and drop the drag factor.

I lowered the DF yesterday, but i still can't get such a high curve while only doing SS pace. As soon as I push hard enough to reach such a curve, my pace drops down to ~2:00/500m while my SS pace is normally 2:10-2:15/500m.

Do you guys really achieve a high haystack curve while doing SS?

Personally I don't think you would expect the same curve line when doing SS vs a harder session. The height comes from a more explosive catch which is really not what happens during SS. That's my view on it and I'm no expert though.....so pinch of salt.

[EastClintwood]

Ok, thank you guys. I just want to make sure to do the things right.

[Sakly]

I had a look at the force curve during my session today. Did a steady state 10k and switched to the curve in the middle (~2:05 when I looked at the curve).
I generate a curve which is very symmetric, so no left side shift as suggested from Nick. But the curve looks more flat than shown on the graphics.
In the end I increased pace for few strokes (~1:54) to see the impact on the curve - it had the same form, but the height increased.

[nick rockliff]

https://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rower ... orce-curve

[EastClintwood]

https://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rower ... orce-curve

Yeah, that site has only very basic informations. And the screenshot in the upper right is funny. I would like to see somebody pulling such a high force curve at only 2:26/500m

[Sakly]

https://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rower ... orce-curve

Looked into the linked pdf from bottom of the site. Seems that I am more linked to the 15-20% guys which have "simultaneous style". My curve exactly looks like the example in the pdf.

[Ombrax]

a high force curve at only 2:26/500m

I'm pretty sure that the Y scale on the PM force curve is totally arbitrary. (They certainly don't put any numbers on the vertical axis (or the horizontal, for that matter, but based on your pace you can figure out about what it has to be).

[JaapvanE]

I'm pretty sure that the Y scale on the PM force curve is totally arbitrary. (They certainly don't put any numbers on the vertical axis (or the horizontal, for that matter, but based on your pace you can figure out about what it has to be).

Ergdata can display the average and peak force.

[Ombrax]

Ergdata can display the average and peak force.

True. (I've never used it in person)

However, my comment was directed to EastClintwood who was referring to a PM display image on the C2 site as "funny."

Ergdata surely scales it's plots based on the numbers and I assume it labels the Y axis, whereas the C2 PM plots are most likely auto-scaled so the force curves cover some % of the display.

[JaapvanE]

Ergdata surely scales it's plots based on the numbers and I assume it labels the Y axis, whereas the C2 PM plots are most likely auto-scaled so the force curves cover some % of the display.

I haven't tried the forcecurve on ErgData yet, I'll take a look soon.

My forcecurve is pretty flat at the moment (still not allowed to row on higher dragfactors due to injury), and I haven't seen it autoscale. They draw the curve real-time, so I guess there is no chance to autoscale in that approach. But I it is the shape that is most important (no odd peaks), not its size per se. That will translate into a pace which is a big number on my PM5.

[Ombrax]

My forcecurve is pretty flat at the moment (still not allowed to row on higher dragfactors due to injury), and I haven't seen it autoscale. They draw the curve real-time, so I guess there is no chance to autoscale in that approach. But I it is the shape that is most important (no odd peaks), not its size per se. That will translate into a pace which is a big number on my PM5.

I'll defer to your more recent observations - it's been quite a while since I looked at a force curve while rowing.

[JaapvanE]

When you're doing steady state sessions, does your force curve have such a high top?
My force curve basically looks like the good curve, but way more stretched and flatter...

I can only get such a force curve (+ maybe a little front loaded) when I'm very explosive and powerful from the start, but then my pace is so fast that it's not steady state anymore...

You might want to look at this video: https://youtu.be/VgnjvXZ1Hv8

It is actually one of the more accessible video's about the force curve and what it means.