Sub 6:30 2k by February

[BTH]

Hi, I want to row a sub 6:30 2k in February, and I'm trying to get an idea of what to do for training.

For a bit of background, I'm 6'6" and 170 lbs. I'm currently a senior in high school. I run cross-country and track. I started rowing on a concept 2 a year ago because I needed a break from running, and I wanted see if I could be better at rowing. Training wise, I did about 50k of rowing and 50k of running each week during July and August. I rowed a 21:40 6k in the middle of August. I just finished my cross-country season, and I'm going to start 2k training in after a 1-2 week break.

Thoughts?

[Tony Cook]

First you need a baseline now. That’s a good time for your 6k and I think then you would have gone under 6:50 for a 2k, but that was 10 weeks ago.
Next is how much time do you intend to commit to training. In high school you’ll have school work, other sports? A part time job? A girlfriend? Social time. Christmas is in the middle of your training period. There’s a big difference in how much quicker you can get on 3 sessions a week compared to 9.
You’ve got the height, age is on your side, and seems you’ve got good base fitness. Depends how much you can put in as to how much you will get out.
Good luck.

[BTH]

Thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I'm planning on doing 10-12 training sessions a week (morning and afternoon every day) split between lifting, rowing, and some running to maintain neuromuscular speed for track. As for a baseline, I just ran a 17:11 5k and 36:01 10k, but I'm not sure what I could row. I had to cut out rowing completely during October to peak for region and state. I'll have to do a 2k and see how it goes.

[aussie nick]

Thanks, I probably should have mentioned that I'm planning on doing 10-12 training sessions a week (morning and afternoon every day) split between lifting, rowing, and some running to maintain neuromuscular speed for track. As for a baseline, I just ran a 17:11 5k and 36:01 10k, but I'm not sure what I could row. I had to cut out rowing completely during October to peak for region and state. I'll have to do a 2k and see how it goes.

do you have access to a coach who can write a program for you and help you with your stroke? as part of your HS or a local rowing club?

Ironing out stroke deficiencies can give you a lot of free power and while you'd cover off a lot of basics sharing on here for the experienced rowers to look at and comment on, I think having someone qualified analysing it and giving you pointers and then looking at your amended stroke would make a real difference

re programming, there are resources for 2k programs for your kind of volume on the web for free and you are clearly pretty well trained, conditioning wise and should understand the basics of improving your conditioning, but getting a qualified coach could shortcut a lot of mistakes and add some real value

good luck...

[BTH]

I live in Utah, where there are a total of like 3 clubs. The closest is an hour away, but I did email that coach last week and am waiting for a response. In case she doesn't respond, I want to have a backup plan.

[Dangerscouse]

It does sound possible, but it won't be easy. You're clearly in very good running shape, but it doesn't usually transfer over, albeit it definitely does happen.

10-12 weekly sessions, is a lot, and assuming that you respond properly to it, could be ideal. Some people thrive off high volume, others don't. Be mindful of overtraining as you've got a big goal to work towards and that can be double edged sword.

There are lots of training plans available, but to keep it simple, the Pete Plan may be all you need. I've seen some people go sub 6:20 using it, as the basic premise of it is appropriate for anyone, as it's just the pace that is adapted to suit

[jamesg]

what to do for training.

First, do a 500m flat out; more than one if you need to settle your style and rating. Then a 2k test at about 30% lower Watts.

In any case check your style; your height has to be used, being effectively a Lightweight and you don't want to rate too high. A 6:30 2k (almost 400W) is close to international standard for oarsmen.

[Tsnor]

I live in Utah, where there are a total of like 3 clubs. The closest is an hour away, but I did email that coach last week and am waiting for a response. In case she doesn't respond, I want to have a backup plan.

You can also look for ZOOM based coaching. My club started that when covid killed in person winter training. Coaching is from your live zoom stream seen by the coach.

Now that we are willing to have in person training most Masters rowers still wanted ZOOM based instead -- no travel time, etc.

The Juniors kept an in-person session winter training session, they get a good benefit from rowing tank sessions and supervised weights.

do you have access to a coach who can write a program for you and help you with your stroke? as part of your HS or a local rowing club?

This is really important. You are planning an aggressive workout schedule (10-12 training sessions a week (morning and afternoon every day) split between lifting, rowing, and some running to maintain neuromuscular speed for track. ). You need a balance of hard days, long slow days and rest days. If you can find the right coach (your track coach can likely do it) then you'll gain performance much faster. If you do too much with too little recovery you'll ace your 2K in 12 weeks, then limp into the spring track season already burnt out.

Most all of the rowing 2K plans out there assume 100% rowing, and cannot be used additively with your running and strength training sessions. You will either need to do some substations of running for rowing while keeping comparable load, or start a thread with more information asking people to build a run plan for you.

[Elizabeth]

I assume that you don't have an indoor track season?

This is purely anecdotal, but I'm doing a combination of rowing and running, and I'm finding that the combination seems to help with things feeling fresh and in building my overall engine, but that there's very little cross-over with helping with speed. All of my speed work has been on the erg. I've done a couple of road races this year where I've really underperformed what my Garmin said I "should" be able to based on VO2max, but they felt like a max effort and my heart rate agreed.

I wonder if your track coach could help guide you with the minimum amount of hard running that you should keep in the program, and if you could substitute that for some of the hard rowing.

[btlifter]

I assume that you don't have an indoor track season?

This is purely anecdotal, but I'm doing a combination of rowing and running, and I'm finding that the combination seems to help with things feeling fresh and in building my overall engine, but that there's very little cross-over with helping with speed. All of my speed work has been on the erg. I've done a couple of road races this year where I've really underperformed what my Garmin said I "should" be able to based on VO2max, but they felt like a max effort and my heart rate agreed.

I wonder if your track coach could help guide you with the minimum amount of hard running that you should keep in the program, and if you could substitute that for some of the hard rowing.

More than just anecdotal! Speed is neuromuscular. "Fitness" will transfer (to a degree) but speed is movement specific.

[BTH]

I talked to my track coach, and I've got a schedule worked out.
Monday
AM: Upper Body Lifting PM: Rowing Threshold/Tempo workout
Tuesday
AM: Easy aerobic row PM: Easy aerobic run
Wednesday
AM: Lower Body Lifting PM: Rowing Sprint/Speed workout
Thursday
AM: Recovery Row 15-20 minutes PM: Recovery run 20-25 minutes
Friday
AM: Long aerobic row PM: Running sprint workout
Saturday
AM: Recovery Row/run/other cross-training 20-30 minutes PM: Rest
Sunday: Rest
One thing that would be really helpful are some specific threshold and speed workouts for rowing, as my track coach doesn't know much about that.

[jamesg]

Recovery (UT2): 18 spm
Aerobic (UT1): up to 24
Threshold (AT) up to 28
Speed: over 32

Keep the stroke solid using the Watt/Rate ratio. Watt levels can be deduced from your stroke Work in your 6k pull or anything later for which you have the rating and power data.

A 2k at 6:30 is 380W; so pulled at say 32-33, needs a 12W-min stroke. At 24 aerobic 24x12 = 290W (1:47) so quite stiff. This stroke may need some development.

What about progression? Usually different types of work are done in succession, from long low rate to short high, over the entire training period. Or is that Week 1 only?

[Elizabeth]

I'm glad your coach was able to help! That schedule has a lot of similarities with what I'm doing, and I'm both enjoying it and seeing good progress. (The main differences are that I squeeze everything in the morning, and don't do the running speed work).

One thing that would be really helpful are some specific threshold and speed workouts for rowing, as my track coach doesn't know much about that.

Most weeks, I use the "speed intervals" and "endurance intervals" outlined in Pete's Plan - https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/. They've worked really well for me. Progression is based on doing them slightly faster each time. I don't necessarily start with a target rate in mind, but typically end up where James outlined for this type of work. Some folks do a ton of work targeting specific rates and watts, but I just don't have experience with that kind of training.

[Tsnor]

I'm glad your coach was able to help! That schedule has a lot of similarities with what I'm doing, and I'm both enjoying it and seeing good progress. (The main differences are that I squeeze everything in the morning, and don't do the running speed work).

One thing that would be really helpful are some specific threshold and speed workouts for rowing, as my track coach doesn't know much about that.

Most weeks, I use the "speed intervals" and "endurance intervals" outlined in Pete's Plan - https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/the-pete-plan/. They've worked really well for me. Progression is based on doing them slightly faster each time. I don't necessarily start with a target rate in mind, but typically end up where James outlined for this type of work. Some folks do a ton of work targeting specific rates and watts, but I just don't have experience with that kind of training.

In case it factors into your decision to follow this excellent advice, Elizabeth is currently the world's fastest women rowing 5K and set the C2 indoor rowing American women's marathon record on Sunday with a time of 2:49:38.0. I'd do what she does.

[BTH]

Thanks Elizabeth, I'll definitely use the speed workouts.
James, I have a question about pace for UT1. Maybe it's because of my running background, but doing aerobic sessions at 1:47/500m seems fast, even with 6:30 fitness. My running mile pace /500 and 5k pace /500 are 12-13 seconds apart. 1:47 is 10 seconds slower /500 than 6:30 2k pace. Does the different power curve in running and rowing make the difference in speed a greater decrease in effort, or are the UT1 workouts going to be close to max effort? Hopefully that question makes sense.