VO2x development

[babuja]

Hi guys,

48 yrs old, 1,86m, 83Kg, practicing crossfit for 3yrs, 4-5 times a week, and wont to develop VO2x by HIIT.

Using rower for 6 month, 2-3 times a week for recovery and cardiac output training, usually 30-40min, steady pace HR zone 2.

My questions:

- What should be the best HIIT regarding work/rest ratios and duration;
- What should be te trigger HR zone?
- Any sugestion or commet is vry appreciated

Thank you.

[Tsnor]

crossfit for 3yrs, 4-5 times a week, and wont to develop VO2x by HIIT.

Using rower for 6 month, 2-3 times a week for recovery and cardiac output training, usually 30-40min, steady pace HR zone 2.

Are you continuing the CrossFit and adding the rowing, or substituting rowing for some of the CrossFit sessions ?

How many zones in your model? 3? 5? 6? (What heartrate are you targeting for your zone 2 work?)

My questions:

- What should be the best HIIT regarding work/rest ratios and duration;
- What should be te trigger HR zone?
- Any sugestion or commet is vry appreciated

Thank you.

ANY intensity / HIIT will improve VO2max short term then plateau. Much research has been done on the "best interval length, rest duration, etc." however no best training format has been discovered. (example, this study caused a lot of excitement and lots of people went to 3 x 13 x 30/15 intervals. Results were debunked a few years later when people properly normalized the work done. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31977120/) So do any interval training you want, long say 4 x 15 mins or short like 15 seconds on / 15 seconds off.

Many studies show there is a direct link between how hard you train (intensity zone) and growth in VO2max, but these studies tend to be broken... example this one "Aerobic high-intensity intervals improve VO2max more than moderate training" where "Fifty-five subjects completed a 6-wk training protocol" seemed to expect to be able to significantly change anything with 6-weeks of UT2 level work. High intensity work does make a difference in 6-week, UT2 work, not so much. Compare the same people 2 years later. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17414804/

We do know by analysis of training logs that high VO2max athletes do a lot of UT2 level work (90+% of training by elapsed time).

SUGGESTION: Have 1 or two designated rest/recovery days. Work out a much as you like using rower, crossfit, etc. Do all but 2 days at less than 75% max heart rate. Do intensity and weights on the other 2 days. Do large volumes of work at the long/slow steady level. If you are currently doing "usually 30-40min, steady pace HR zone 2." gradually increase this to 60-90 minutes. Don't increase too fast. Anything above 5 hours/week shows good gains, you need to have the volume). If you want a short term pop in VO2max use 3 days/week of intervals at greater than 75% max, but don't sustain this for more than 4-6 weeks.

Good luck.

[jamesg]

Years ago there was a "Fast Track" Interactive scheme here.

As HIIT it suggested 10 strokes on 10 off, repeated continuously in batches of 6, 8 or 10; then all repeated to total 3 batches. So the longest wanted 300 strokes on and 300 off, so quite some work.

This once a week. The other days were conventional as far as I remember.

At 80kg the fast bits will need to be done at around 250W, as a guess, rating maybe 25.

[babuja]

Are you continuing the CrossFit and adding the rowing, or substituting rowing for some of the CrossFit sessions ?

How many zones in your model? 3? 5? 6? (What heartrate are you targeting for your zone 2 work?)

Hi Tsnor,

Yes, keeping the 4-5 crossfit session/week and adding the rower (more methodical and consistent) on my rest days.

Eventually, keep the strength and gymnastics in one of the days and switch the WOD for a rowing HIIT.

Using 5 HR zones:

Z2: 60-70% MHR

Much appreciated for all the insights and recomendations...still digesting data

[Tsnor]

Are you continuing the CrossFit and adding the rowing, or substituting rowing for some of the CrossFit sessions ?

How many zones in your model? 3? 5? 6? (What heartrate are you targeting for your zone 2 work?)

Hi Tsnor,

Yes, keeping the 4-5 crossfit session/week and adding the rower (more methodical and consistent) on my rest days.

Eventually, keep the strength and gymnastics in one of the days and switch the WOD for a rowing HIIT.

Using 5 HR zones:

Z2: 60-70% MHR

Much appreciated for all the insights and recomendations...still digesting data

Perfect. Z2: 60-70% MHR Just need to slowly ramp time up.

Are your 3-4 crossfits all intense effort levels? Or can you keep some on them in that Zone 2 level? There is some evidence that 4 hard workouts a week is worse than 3.

Do you track heart rate variability or resting heart rate? You are working out right on the edge of too hard -- higher gains, higher risk of overreach. Good Luck. When you decide what you'll do please post it.

[Mike Caviston]

- What should be the best HIIT regarding work/rest ratios and duration;
- What should be te trigger HR zone?
- Any sugestion or commet is vry appreciated

If “VO2x” means VO2 max, or maximal aerobic capacity, my first question would be: is that really what you want to improve? Or do you want to improve endurance in general? VO2 max is one component of endurance, but not the only component. Other components include the fractional utilization of oxygen (the % of VO2 max you can sustain for prolonged durations) and economy (the amount of oxygen you consume at a given pace). Some training programs may lead to an increase in VO2 max, but an actual decrease in endurance performance (such as taking longer to complete a 10K run) because they don’t adequately develop the other endurance components. On the other hand, VO2 max may be most relevant as an indicator of cardiorespiratory health. What is your specific focus?

An effective interval format that improves endurance specifically for efforts that last as short as 5-10 minutes or as long as 90-120 minutes (or even longer) is: work periods of roughly 1-3 minutes duration; total work of 10-15 minutes; recovery intervals roughly 2 to 2.5x as long as the work intervals. So, something like 12 x 1’ (2’ recovery), or 4 x 3’ (7’ recovery). (I have developed a specific format for rowing that involves intervals ranging from 250m-1K distance for a total work distance of 4K; examples include 8x500m [3-4' recovery], 4x1K [7-8' recovery], and a pyramid of 250-500-750-1K-750-500-250 [variable recovery]).

I don’t know what “trigger HR zone” is but I never use HR to quantify training intensity. Overall, to improve endurance and keep making gains for months and years, I would limit hard interval sessions to 1-2 per week and invest in lots of moderately-paced/longer duration sessions.

[babuja]

Hi guys,

This is how my rowing firts HIIT looked like:
Emom 10' 30s ON 30s Off



How should a progression of this workout look like?

Increase time under effort on the same HR zone (Z4), incresing 1min in each session till 15-20min? And then reduce time under effort and increase HR zone (Z5)?

Not looking to lose weight, the opposite is true, im 83kg and i would like to incresase to 85kg in the next 2yrs

[babuja]

Are your 3-4 crossfits all intense effort levels? Or can you keep some on them in that Zone 2 level? There is some evidence that 4 hard workouts a week is worse than 3.

Do you track heart rate variability or resting heart rate? You are working out right on the edge of too hard -- higher gains, higher risk of overreach. Good Luck. When you decide what you'll do please post it.

Each crossfit training session is composed of several modules of strength, gymnastics, metcom, acessory, depending on the day of the week.

I try to keep the metcom 2 times a week, and skip the metcom in the other days.

I was looking to use the rowing HIIT once a week lon one of this skiping days, and keep the 30-40min (to gradually increase) of cardiac output Zone 2, in the resting/recovery day with mobility (i really need it).

Today's crossfit session:







I track resting HR and avgr is 53, below 50 after cardiac output session.

Thank you

[babuja]

Overall, to improve endurance and keep making gains for months and years, I would limit hard interval sessions to 1-2 per week and invest in lots of moderately-paced/longer duration sessions.

Hi Mike,

Objective is to build a bigger engine...if possible

Much appreciated for your comments, i will keep those insight in mind, thank you

[KeithT]

Without repeating all the others I will simply say that I am a CF convert - I went from doing mostly CF and doing a little extra rowing to a Rower that does CF once or twice a week. My experience is that if you go hard in CF 2-3 times a week then extra rowing really needs to focus on steady state. If you want to do a more intense row (which I suggest) then I would do that in place of a Metcon.

[babuja]

Without repeating all the others I will simply say that I am a CF convert - I went from doing mostly CF and doing a little extra rowing to a Rower that does CF once or twice a week. My experience is that if you go hard in CF 2-3 times a week then extra rowing really needs to focus on steady state. If you want to do a more intense row (which I suggest) then I would do that in place of a Metcon.

Hi Keith,

Appreciated for the feedback.

Thank You

[babuja]

Hi guys,

ive done a VO2max test and it came out with custom heart rate zones.



i would like to change ergdata app heart rate zones but im not sure how to do it.



Could you kindly assist?

Thank you.

[Tony Cook]

I’ve looked to do that too, but can’t find any way of making it bespoke. It seems to calculate from what you put as your age and max HR.

[Tsnor]

Hi guys,

ive done a VO2max test and it came out with custom heart rate zones.

If you don't mind saying, how did you find a place to get your VO2 test done ? How did they test you ?


On your actual topic, I would like this function also. Seems like a very high value change. I'm dropping a note to C2 in hopes of seeing it in a future release.

[JaapvanE]

On your actual topic, I would like this function also. Seems like a very high value change. I'm dropping a note to C2 in hopes of seeing it in a future release.

I corrected the zones by adjusting maximum HR in the profile of ErgZone. A bit crude, but my zones now largely align with percieved effort.