Do I have any talent after 3 sessions?

[sailortodd]

Like this https://youtu.be/_Y6YaPpYzs0

Oh, I have seen ~r40 when I was doing an arms only drill like that guy was. But then again, my pace was nowhere near 1:12...

More seriously thanks for the various notes, I do see where the shortened drive and increased rate might be beneficial for the sprints. Nothing I'm ever going to do as a novice recreational erger, but it is a thing. Thanks.

[MPx]

I have been hugely impressed with, and enjoyed following the progress of, Martin Stoeger since he joined the forum in recent years. Martin has always been an exceptional sprinter but has adapted his training to achieve some very impressive scores across the board. His most recent 100m PB was at rate 63 (!)

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
0:13.3 100m 1:06.5 1190 4396 63
DF 246

Suggesting that there is a place for extreme rates to obtain impressive results on the ultra sprints. Although C2 and many on here would also see 1k and 2k as sprint races, to me the sprints are 500m and below. Once beyond 500m staying strong while rating in the mid 30s is a really tough ask - but you should still give it a go once every week or so in some intervals or the occasional TT. You may be amazed at what you can do once you're used to it.

[Sakly]

Suggesting that there is a place for extreme rates to obtain impressive results on the ultra sprints. Although C2 and many on here would also see 1k and 2k as sprint races, to me the sprints are 500m and below. Once beyond 500m staying strong while rating in the mid 30s is a really tough ask - but you should still give it a go once every week or so in some intervals or the occasional TT. You may be amazed at what you can do once you're used to it.

I absolutely agree on this.
Last 5k TT I tried to rate much higher as I usually did before and went well. I PB'd the 5k at rate 33 average and my previous one was at r26. Shaved of 11s, but felt much more stable and could control pace much better over complete race. In the previous one I died at the end, this one on r33 I felt far better at the end.
I never thought I could rate at 33 for 5k before!

[Erik A]

Regarding the stroke rate. This is probably based on weight, height and type of workout, but what stroke range would be ideal for someone of my size?
When I rowed my second session a much bigger guy was next to me. He was pulling fast (34-36 strokes per minute) and looking crazy, but I was still faster than him. He must've been on a low damper setting? The machines at my gym aren't the best. They chain doesn't feel firm. I rowed at damper 5 today.

I have an old man in my gym who used to row on the water, and he still rows at a very easy pace at rate 20 without breaking a sweat, but easily rows a 2K under 8 minutes that way. That leaves most brute force sweating gym users behind. It is a game of effectiveness, which can easily be won against people who just use brute force without regard for technique.

The stroke rate also is a personal preference. When thinking about stroke rate, think of the flywheel as a kid on a swing you are pushing. When your timing is off you either pushing against the motion or you are pushing against a swing that is already gone. Effectiveness happens when you time your push/drive just right.

Stroke rate actually is determined by the combination of you and the dragfactor you use. Ideally, you have a natural (not hasted) recovery, just to return in time for the flywheel to have slowed down enough to pick it up again easily (the catch). You feel a good flow and not much energy is wasted.

When your recovery is too fast for your DF, the flywheel is still spinning too fast and you will lose a powerfull part of the stroke to catching up with the flywheel (you are running behind the swing that is gone). When you are too late, the flywheel will have slowed down too much and the catch will be easy to feel but hard on your body. So getting into that zone where you can easily catch that spinning flywheel again is usefull.

Another point on that motion and why a rushed drive is less effective: the flywheel gets much more resistance when it moves faster (look for "cube law"), just like a boat. So, maintaining a more steady flywheel speed instead of a very fluctuating one throughout a stroke, is beneficial. It simply is more effective. Most brute force people have a huge explosive (rushed) drive and try to get the flywheel spinning as fast as possible. It will peak quickly, and decay in speed faster as well. So looking at your force curve during a row, and getting as much area underneath as possible (the best ones look like haystacks) will make you the most effective.

that is a really interesting description of the stroke rate. i hade a classic example of this on the weekend. i attempted a 100m TT. DF i bumped up from 125 to what i thought was about 150. all was going well then my erg wheel got covered by the curtain (blowing in the wind)and the DF went mental. dropped to probably below 100. the last 5 -8 seconds or so was a waste of time. i was really only using the last foot or so of the stroke as that was when i was catching the flywheel. managed 18.1 seconds at 1:30.5 SR of 40. was hoping for a sub 18 sec but maybe next time after i coral that curtain

[MartinSH4321]

I have been hugely impressed with, and enjoyed following the progress of, Martin Stoeger since he joined the forum in recent years. Martin has always been an exceptional sprinter but has adapted his training to achieve some very impressive scores across the board. His most recent 100m PB was at rate 63 (!)

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
0:13.3 100m 1:06.5 1190 4396 63
DF 246

Suggesting that there is a place for extreme rates to obtain impressive results on the ultra sprints. Although C2 and many on here would also see 1k and 2k as sprint races, to me the sprints are 500m and below. Once beyond 500m staying strong while rating in the mid 30s is a really tough ask - but you should still give it a go once every week or so in some intervals or the occasional TT. You may be amazed at what you can do once you're used to it.

Thanks for your kind words Mike!
R63 feels pretty weird and not flying off the seat is a challenge on it's own

But when it comes to sprinting there's only one guy here that should be mentioned first - Cam Wharram (btlifter), World Class at 1', 500m and 1k (and hopefully WR holder soon). It's great to have him here in this forum and read his advises. The only thing where I can propably challenge him is the stroke rate

[andrew1987]

Today I decided to do 10x60"/30" to feel sub 20 min pace.
9 of the intervals were controlled. I decided to go on almost full attack on the 10th. The drag factor was 139-141.

Any thoughts on this session?
https://ibb.co/x2hZPcF

[Dangerscouse]

Today I decided to do 10x60"/30" to feel sub 20 min pace.
9 of the intervals were controlled. I decided to go on full almost full attack on the 10th. The drag factor was 139-141.

Any thoughts on this session?
https://ibb.co/x2hZPcF

How did the first nine intervals feels? That final one, if it didn't totally destroy you, shows that you're on target for a sub 20 5k. The 30 second rests are so short that I find them more of a hindrance than a help, so this is a good session

[andrew1987]

Today I decided to do 10x60"/30" to feel sub 20 min pace.
9 of the intervals were controlled. I decided to go on full almost full attack on the 10th. The drag factor was 139-141.

Any thoughts on this session?
https://ibb.co/x2hZPcF

How did the first nine intervals feels? That final one, if it didn't totally destroy you, shows that you're on target for a sub 20 5k. The 30 second rests are so short that I find them more of a hindrance than a help, so this is a good session

I did the intervals progressively, mostly around 1:59/500m. Then on the last one I did 1:49 and I wouldn't be able to do many of 1:49 with 30 seconds of rest. However I could've done another 10 intervals at 1:59/500m.

[MPx]

But when it comes to sprinting there's only one guy here that should be mentioned first - Cam Wharram (btlifter),

I do take your point Martin - and like most on here (I'd imagine) I'm in complete awe of him and much enjoy following his posts. But Cam is just on so much of a different level its often hard for me to relate his experience to what I see me and others doing/trying to do. Fantastic that we have such poeple contributing - part of the rich mix of the community unique to C2 which provides so much to learn from and the inspiration to get on and keep doing it year after year.

[AncientMariner]

Thank you all for the encouraging comments. I'm a very determined person. I will definitely do some studying.
One thing I'm unsure of is which number on the foot plate I should pick. My shoe size is US 8.5 (EU 42).
Guidance around that would be great from veterans like yourselves.

Regarding the stroke rate. This is probably based on weight, height and type of workout, but what stroke range would be ideal for someone of my size?
When I rowed my second session a much bigger guy was next to me. He was pulling fast (34-36 strokes per minute) and looking crazy, but I was still faster than him. He must've been on a low damper setting? The machines at my gym aren't the best. They chain doesn't feel firm. I rowed at damper 5 today.

Hi Andrew, I think you can definitely get to sub 20min after some good months of training. It is doable, it will be a good challenge for sure.
I'm 190cm at 68kg and find pulling a sub 20 min 5k to be pretty tough, though I'm not training consistently and I'm 45 yo. I also use a lower DF setting than most people, typically around 100 for my SS work. I think doing some training at really low DF can help you with your connection at the front end, and the feeling of just keeping that wheel spinning with quick drives, rather than brute force which I am not made for.

As far as rating, for your SS training I really would recommend a lot of work at lower rates (say target 20spm), trying to work up toward 10-12k distance.
Work on technique and developing a well connected strong stroke. If you race up and down the rail without good form it is a lot of wasted energy.

Good luck. I'm sure you can get there if you put in the time, and it is very satisfying when you finally achieve your goal. Also gaining some strength and weight with lifting would probably go a long way too.

[andrew1987]

Thank you all for the encouraging comments. I'm a very determined person. I will definitely do some studying.
One thing I'm unsure of is which number on the foot plate I should pick. My shoe size is US 8.5 (EU 42).
Guidance around that would be great from veterans like yourselves.

Regarding the stroke rate. This is probably based on weight, height and type of workout, but what stroke range would be ideal for someone of my size?
When I rowed my second session a much bigger guy was next to me. He was pulling fast (34-36 strokes per minute) and looking crazy, but I was still faster than him. He must've been on a low damper setting? The machines at my gym aren't the best. They chain doesn't feel firm. I rowed at damper 5 today.

Hi Andrew, I think you can definitely get to sub 20min after some good months of training. It is doable, it will be a good challenge for sure.
I'm 190cm at 68kg and find pulling a sub 20 min 5k to be pretty tough, though I'm not training consistently and I'm 45 yo. I also use a lower DF setting than most people, typically around 100 for my SS work. I think doing some training at really low DF can help you with your connection at the front end, and the feeling of just keeping that wheel spinning with quick drives, rather than brute force which I am not made for.

As far as rating, for your SS training I really would recommend a lot of work at lower rates (say target 20spm), trying to work up toward 10-12k distance.
Work on technique and developing a well connected strong stroke. If you race up and down the rail without good form it is a lot of wasted energy.

Good luck. I'm sure you can get there if you put in the time, and it is very satisfying when you finally achieve your goal. Also gaining some strength and weight with lifting would probably go a long way too.

My training is pretty monotone. I've done one interval session and four 5000m. Today I did the 4th 5000m Hopefully I'll break sub 20 min after 1-2 more sessions. I improved (today July 28th) my time by almost 1 minute from July 22nd.
Stroke rate was 28 s/m on average.
https://ibb.co/bvCBBSt