Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[mitchel674]

Any ideas perhaps on how to pace the next session 2x2000m 4R

The instrux for the 2 x 10 mins in week 1 are to hold the steady row pace for the first rep and aim to slightly beat it on the second. I don't think that's very challenging but it is the fifth session of the week so maybe it's not meant to be.

My hunch for the longer intervals (the plan has 1500m and 2500m reps later, I believe) would be to pitch for about the mid point between current pace on the steady rows and one's actual or notional 2k pace (or 500m reps). Or, as an alternative measure, the mid point between the stroke rates. You get 4 minutes to recover, as against the 2 minutes for other similar-length reps in the plan, which I interpret as an invitation to push it a little.

But also, what Mitch said: important not to crash and burn so add an element of go by feel.

I decided to follow your suggestion on the pace for the 2000m intervals and aimed for 2:12 pace.
2x 2000m R4 2:11,5 23spm
Felt okay, stroke rate perhaps a bit low and heart-rate perhaps too high. Don`t think I could have done a third interval at that pace, but still many weeks to come.

Pretty impressive work. Nice rowing!

[Autoland]

BPP 2/2 this morning: 4 x 750m 2 mins rest, instrux are same pace as 500m reps in previous week but no faster.

I thought I'd overcooked the 500m's at 2:01.6 so approached this one with trepidation and was ready to drop the pace if necessary. In the event ... achievement unlocked, even had to throttle back at times to avoid overshooting. The longer fast intervals are my least favourite session so I'm pleased with that.

I'm trying to reduce heel lift at the catch and start the drive with feet planted flatter on the footrests for a better connection, and it seems to be working.

How did your 2000m's go, Wouter -- what pace did you settle on in the end?

Nice work. The longer sprint like intervals are evil.

I've been paying more attention to heel lift as well. That and ensuring my arms are FULLY extended prior to body rock. These two things have had good results.

7x500m, r2 done yesterday. Aiming for less than the 2:04 I did these at during week #1 and managed a 2:02 average yesterday. My problem with these has always been my low rating. I rarely rate higher than 30spm on these short pieces and will need to continue to work on this.

I'm looking forward to a relaxing 8000m at 20spm today.

Good progress.

I've been concentrating on longer SS sessions of late and working on consistent SPMs under 20.

I decided to follow your suggestion on the pace for the 2000m intervals and aimed for 2:12 pace.
2x 2000m R4 2:11,5 23spm
Felt okay, stroke rate perhaps a bit low and heart-rate perhaps too high. Don`t think I could have done a third interval at that pace, but still many weeks to come.

Nicely done. Looks like you're pushing hard.

[Dalos]

Hi all,

On pacing from the plan (and apologies if this is teaching folk returning to the plan to suck eggs, but the below I would have found useful at the start):

The desired training effect

Read this short section if you’re interested in the training effect you are gaining for each group of sessions. You learnt whilst completing the 24 week training plan (or from reading through what you’ll be doing over the next 24 weeks) that the sessions fit into a few distinct groups. There are only three groups overall, so you’ll now find out which sessions fit together, and what the desired training effect is from those sessions.

Group 1 – Endurance (distance) training:

Endurance training is really where you make the big gains in fitness, and should always be the backbone of any training plan. Without the basic fitness, no amount of power or strength is going to help. Towards the later stages of the 24 week ‘Pete Plan’ these endurance sessions were in two formats, single pieces (such as 10000m & 30min) and longer intervals split by short rests (such as 2 x 15min & 3 x 10min). Remember that the rest times when you split the distance into intervals should be no more than a quarter of the preceding interval time

Group 2 – Speed Endurance (AT) training:

You might hear other people talk of this group of training sessions as anaerobic threshold (AT) sessions, as they are very good at improving your AT. As you’re unlikely to have had the necessary physiological testing to be training to strict heart rate limits, you can just think of them as speed endurance training sessions. They are there to improve your endurance at faster paces, by rowing for extended periods followed by comparatively long rests compared to the pure endurance sessions. The total distance tends to be less than the distance sessions too, to enable you to work at a higher pace. The sessions you have been rowing in this group are 4 x 2000m and 5 x 1500m. Generally the rest time between this intervals will be close to half of the preceding interval time.

Group 3 – Speed training:

The final group of sessions is designed to work on your pure speed, around the pace you would row a single 2000m test piece at. Doing one of these sessions (such as 4 x 1000m, 5 x 800m & 8 x 500) once every 1 to 2 weeks is a good part of a balanced training plan, but if you’re not planning on doing a test piece for 2000m in the near future, these are the least vital sessions in the plan. The rest time between intervals on these sessions would generally be around 1 to 1, ie resting for a similar time to the preceding work interval.

I read that as any of the 500m, 750m, 800m or 1000m sessions at your estimated 2k time and the other interval sessions with longer rest breaks at AT threshold with all other longer distance sessions R18-22 UT2. Tends to hold to the '80% of your training at UT2'.

AT would be 80-85% of your HRR (Max-Min HR) or approx 70-80% of your 2k threshold. I find both those match up (in terms of time and HR) to my tested 2k pace. A lot of those calcs need you to either know your 2k time or HR figures though.

UT2 can be done by feel / level of effort and you can find your max pace over 5-6 sessions at shorter hard intervals just by incrementing down. Once you are doing those that should tell you your rough 2k pace to estimate the AT limit. (Much harder to it by feel I expect).

Example with me. My last checked 2k pace would put me at 8:38 / 2:09.5. Been a while since I trained so I went with 2:14.5 on the first 500m interval session (all initial reps at this, all out on the last one), and came to a 2:12.5 average. Same again (2:12.5 target now) and got 2:10.5, 750x4 (2:12.5 target) got 2:10.9. Same again but this time on 1000mx3 with a 2:10.5 target and got 2:10 average. Next one I'll aim for 2:10 target. I expect these interval sessions will then quickly max at at 2:09 or so, my rough 2k pace.

______

Anyway, training, Week 4 day 2. some times I would aspire to above! (would love to be under 8min / 2:00 500m pace for 2k or the interval sessions and a few close up there). I had to miss a couple of days when my RHR was coming out at 45-50 in the morning. Back to normal today and the session I remember struggling with (couple of times I went to hard and needed to slow on the last rep rather than push) the first time around, 1000m x3 at 2k pace. (500, 750 and 800 just don't seem so bad and I tend to look forward to them).

Came out at my 2k pace (2:10) with 197 HR at the end (my seen max is 201) so the expected training outcome, but tough going.

[Dalos]

This is the excel training calculator I use for reference (I think I found it somewhere on this forum). Has been almost exactly spot on:

https://file.io/dN3TgB11yu92

Also been using the ErgZone app as it lets you pre-program the sessions and can run the background if you want to watch something on your phone when training.

[Rowan McSheen]

I decided to follow your suggestion on the pace for the 2000m intervals and aimed for 2:12 pace.
2x 2000m R4 2:11,5 23spm
Felt okay, stroke rate perhaps a bit low and heart-rate perhaps too high. Don`t think I could have done a third interval at that pace, but still many weeks to come.

Phew. I'm pleased it went well. I would have felt bad had you crashed and burned for following my advice!

The second 5500m of week 2 done ... slightly slower pace than the previous but at the same heart rate. The weather is getting warmer here and I don't do heat, so I'm going by the hrm rather than the pace.

[Rowan McSheen]

I've been paying more attention to heel lift as well. That and ensuring my arms are FULLY extended prior to body rock. These two things have had good results.

Yes. And it is something I have to keep reminding myself of.

Trouble is, I seem to have space in my head only for one particular action or metric. As I concentrate on straight arms, the hr drifts. Concentrate on that, the spm goes walkabout. Watch that, and the pace goes awry. Focus on pace and I notice my arms aren't quite straight ... and so it goes

[mitchel674]

Second 8000m of the week done yesterday at 2:20.8.

I had a break in the middle of my day at work today so I went ahead and did the optional 6000m row. I was looking for a leisurely row at 22spm and didn't really look at anything but my spm and heart rate. Wound up at 2:18.4 and managed to keep my HR below 150 for most of the piece. Pretty pleased with that one.

[Rowan McSheen]

Came out at my 2k pace (2:10) with 197 HR at the end (my seen max is 201) so the expected training outcome, but tough going.

Sounds like a decent sesh, Dalos. The 1000m reps are my worst, I don't mind the 500s and moderately dislike the 750s but the 1000s are the pits. All the more reason to force ourselves to do them, I guess.

Second 8000m of the week done yesterday at 2:20.8.

I had a break in the middle of my day at work today so I went ahead and did the optional 6000m row. I was looking for a leisurely row at 22spm and didn't really look at anything but my spm and heart rate. Wound up at 2:18.4 and managed to keep my HR below 150 for most of the piece. Pretty pleased with that one.

Nice! I must have a slow heart, at 150 on the erg I'd be gasping. I think my "erg max" is only in the low 150s, given that my observed running max in recent times is in the low 160s.

Week 2 session 4 for me today: 20 minutes at about the pace of the 5500m's. I came in at the same pace and hr as the second one, which was the slower of the two. Given the shorter distance that was a bit disappointing, especially as I took a day out yesterday. But not to worry, it felt good anyway.

[mitchel674]

Heart rates are a strange and variable thing. I've seen my HR over 180 on the erg doing some tough intervals. My steady state HR seems to be in the 140's. I'm almost not rowing when I try to get it much below that.

Did the 8500m row for day #1 of BPP week 8. Another nice session at 2:20.9 with average HR at 142.

[Rowan McSheen]

3 x 8 minutes 2 rest completes week 2 for me. Instrux are to repeat pace of 5th session in week 1, I went marginally quicker. A decent mid-level but not too taxing workout. Onwards and upwards to week 3.

[mitchel674]

4 x 1500m, r3 done yesterday for week #8 BPP. I was aiming to beat 2:12 and wound up with an average of 2:10.4. My average stroke rate was 28. I continue to be challenged by my inability to rate up. I must be doing something to reduce efficiency when I go above 28spm.

[Dangerscouse]

4 x 1500m, r3 done yesterday for week #8 BPP. I was aiming to beat 2:12 and wound up with an average of 2:10.4. My average stroke rate was 28. I continue to be challenged by my inability to rate up. I must be doing something to reduce efficiency when I go above 28spm.

I'm not sure, but I suspect breathing sequence becomes an issue over certain spms. I'd also wonder if your limiter is oxygen delivery or oxygen utilisation, the higher stroke rate maybe reaches a tipping point and you start to fail.

All very speculative, and I'm far from an expert but I'm trying to understand the theory behind cardio 'limiters' which are the reason why some people benefit from lots of long distance, and others thrive off short HIIT ie the 'go hard or go home' crew vs the 'go slow to get fast' crew

[mitchel674]

4 x 1500m, r3 done yesterday for week #8 BPP. I was aiming to beat 2:12 and wound up with an average of 2:10.4. My average stroke rate was 28. I continue to be challenged by my inability to rate up. I must be doing something to reduce efficiency when I go above 28spm.

I'm not sure, but I suspect breathing sequence becomes an issue over certain spms. I'd also wonder if your limiter is oxygen delivery or oxygen utilisation, the higher stroke rate maybe reaches a tipping point and you start to fail.

All very speculative, and I'm far from an expert but I'm trying to understand the theory behind cardio 'limiters' which are the reason why some people benefit from lots of long distance, and others thrive off short HIIT ie the 'go hard or go home' crew vs the 'go slow to get fast' crew

Stu, you may be right. I often find myself holding my breath and out of breathing sequence as I rate up. I need to do a better job of figuring out when to breath with stroke rates above 30. You would think breathing would be intuitive, but it's not!

[Dangerscouse]

Stu, you may be right. I often find myself holding my breath and out of breathing sequence as I rate up. I need to do a better job of figuring out when to breath with stroke rates above 30. You would think breathing would be intuitive, but it's not!

Breathing is an interesting subject, and last night I started reading a book all about it by James Nestor, which has been recommended.

[aussie nick]

sorry wrong thread