Just back and confused

[cannondalerugby5]

Hi and thanks for reading,
Just back onto the ergo after a very pleasant time of not being on it
Searched for a "get back into it training "programme.
Found Indoor Sports Services.
Worked out target pace for each zone based on very poor 2 k time.
Worked out HR zones based on 48 rest and 161 max.
First session last night was a AN session.
10 x 1 min on and 1 min off at 1.46 pace,HR 156 to 161
Came under the 1.46 but the session was not easy.
Next is my confusion.
My average HR was around 134, only getting up to 142 on the last two reps.
So far away from the expected 156 -161.
Hence my confusion, why is the HR so far away, were the reps too short?
On the bike I can get into 145 plus for 20 mins plus?
Thanks
Steve

[MPx]

Welcome back Steve. Basically "yes" the reps are too short (and too few) to get your HR up near max. More likely to see a max off 4 min + tough interval repeats, or slightly less painfully by doing a fastish TT in the 5 to 10k range for which you try to sprint for say the last minute.

Also depends on how you arrived at your 161 max. If by any sort of formula rather than a test then it could be way out and your max may easily be 10bpm less (or more!).

And are you referring just to the PM numbers or the detail through Ergdata or similar??? Remember the PM records the HR as you cross the finish as a single point in time and the avg across reps is an avg of those 10 numbers, regardless of what your HR actually did for the other 9min50+. Hence best to use Ergdata or similar and see what was really going on across the whole piece .... which you may be doing already!

[Ombrax]

I agree - 1 min on , 1 min off will not get you a very high avg HR, even if you exclude the rest periods from the HR calculation. And certainly not if you don't. Nor will it get you close to your max.

Steve, are you trying to get to your MHR to figure out what it is, or are you trying to do a workout with a high avg HR? That's two different things.

There have been a few threads here on how to find your max HR, and if you look around they'll turn up. The bottom line (for me, YMMV) is that I need a good warm-up, then a hard intro that really gets the systems going (say, 2k at 2k + 5 pace) but not so hard that I don't have anything left for the final push, then I give it all I have for at least a few minutes, until I'm totally maxed out, or I can see on the PM that my HR has leveled off and just isn't going to go any higher. No rests at any point. It isn't any fun, and I rarely do it. Other folks have more structured ways of going about it, and it depends a bit from person to person.

Have fun!

[jamesg]

10 x 1 min on and 1 min off at 1.46 pace,HR 156 to 161
My average HR was around 134, only getting up to 142 on the last two reps.

Maybe it would be best to use a target 2k pace rather than a slow test. This would skewer all your work, keeping you within low limits. At 81 I have to push them, just to stop going backwards.

That you couldn't get HR up even with short rest also says you were going too slow. I wouldn't say you have to get in band before starting the work, but that might well be a way of interpreting HR dogma.

[hjs]

Hi and thanks for reading,
Just back onto the ergo after a very pleasant time of not being on it
Searched for a "get back into it training "programme.
Found Indoor Sports Services.
Worked out target pace for each zone based on very poor 2 k time.
Worked out HR zones based on 48 rest and 161 max.
First session last night was a AN session.
10 x 1 min on and 1 min off at 1.46 pace,HR 156 to 161
Came under the 1.46 but the session was not easy.
Next is my confusion.
My average HR was around 134, only getting up to 142 on the last two reps.
So far away from the expected 156 -161.
Hence my confusion, why is the HR so far away, were the reps too short?
On the bike I can get into 145 plus for 20 mins plus?
Thanks
Steve

My 5 cents.

Steve you being a natural sprinter and not super aerobicly trained, you will use your anaerobic system a good bit more than average Joe rower.
And in general, the shorter the work, the less usefull hf becomes. Would not bother to much about your hf numbers, go by feel and pace. And I might ad, stuff like this might not be so usefull for your 2k. Think your most gain is to be found in longer, easy sessions. And here hf will come in usefull.
Re 20 min bike, have you tried 20 on the erg lately. If you haven’t rowed much, your body right now simply be not be geared towards rowing.
Example from myself. I cycled more or less my whole life, mostly in daily life. So always been used to cycle. Last 2 years not cycled much, sometimes not for months. The moment I cycle, I “think” I still can but within a few minutes my legs give in, at a poor pace. Last summer, for a few months, I did cycle again, after 6 weeks orso, I could keep a good pace again, but the first few times where bizar. Completely lost it. While my general fitness at the time was still pretty ok.

[cannondalerugby5]

Thanks HJS,Jamesg,Ombrax,

Really appreciate your feedback and advice, it is really appreciated.

Couple of replies;
HR max based on the most I have seen on a max test so believe its within a few beats of correct.
I had the feeling that the 1 min interval was to short to get to the HR range.
Will look at longer sessions over the next month based on feel and not so much target pace of HR.
I think HJS was so right when he said that i would not be erg fit, really finding it hard to get the air in at a HR that on the bike would be easy and easy to hold for 20 to 30 mins i.e 500s last night really hard,gasping for air but HR only getting to 140 on last few reps during the last 20 secs.
On the bike I can sit on a climb at 145 for a period of time and be comfortably uncomfortable.

Going to do some 30 mins,1500 reps,1000 reps for the next month or so

Thanks again to all

Steve

[mangabootoo]

Hi,

Can you forward a link to their training programme?

Many thanks

Jon

[cannondalerugby5]

Hi Jon
Really sorry but I cannot find the link.
Haven’t been doing much as waiting for a new hit.
FitnessMatters have good programs on ERG DATA
Hope this helps
Steve