Could rowers benefit from Inspiratory Muscle Strength Training ?

[Nomath]

...
I still can't come up with a mechanism whereby one would expect this kind of training to be effective. The fact that the one study on elite rowers showed zero benefit, even looking at VO2 max, suggests no real benefit for most. Club rowers might be more susceptible to placebo effect improvements. None of those studies convince me otherwise.

You seem to have missed one of the essentials in the paper by Prof. Alison McConnell, namely that for rowers breathing is much more constrained than in most other sports, such as cycling or running.

I like to quote from a recent paper Olympic Rowing - Maximum Capacity over 2000 Meters by Gunnar Treff and co-authors in the German Journal of Sports Medicine, June 2021.
Treff is the chief Physiologist of the German Rowing Association and a researcher at the University of Ulm in the group of Prof. Steinacker (co-author), an established authority in rowing science.

Here are a few extracts that are particularly relevant for breathing:

The sitting position of the rower, the involvement of a large muscle mass and the structure of the rowing cycle, consisting of drive and recovery phase, where the rower slides back and forth on a sliding seat, affect the cardiovascular and respiratory system in a unique manner. ...

The structure of the rowing stroke imposes Valsalva-like maneuvers because especially at the begin of the drive phase (..) rowers hold their breath to stabilize the core, which means an increase in intra-thoriac pressure and high isometric cardiac stress by a transient increase in LV afterload. In the second part of the rowing cycle, the recovery phase (i.e when the rower slides forward and does not apply force to the handle) the pressure is released...

The aforementioned effects of the rowing cycle are particularly relevant for pulmonary function and breathing mechanics because the respiratory muscles face a dual demand: they assist in the propulsive force generation and are also an effector of ventilatory control. Since stroke and respiratory rate increase in concert, breathing is increasingly entrained. At high work rates with high respiratory frequencies, the time constraints on breathing result in high peak flow of more than 10 L/s, a dynamic compression of the airways occurs during expiration and tidal volume reaches the flat part of the thoriac compliance curve. The ventilatory response is characterized by restricted tidal volumes and flow constraints for breathing. Hence, large airways and lung volumes are important for rowers. Of note, lung capacity has been reported to be as high as 11.68 L.

In short: rowers are not free to breath, unlike cyclists ; breathing is constrained and has to be synchronized to the stroke phase ; lung capacity is important ; at high intensity rowers can get short of breath.

Although I am not a self-declared physiological expert, I can easily see why training the inspiratory muscles makes sense.

[frankencrank]

...
I still can't come up with a mechanism whereby one would expect this kind of training to be effective. The fact that the one study on elite rowers showed zero benefit, even looking at VO2 max, suggests no real benefit for most. Club rowers might be more susceptible to placebo effect improvements. None of those studies convince me otherwise.

You seem to have missed one of the essentials in the paper by Prof. Alison McConnell, namely that for rowers breathing is much more constrained than in most other sports, such as cycling or running.

I like to quote from a recent paper Olympic Rowing - Maximum Capacity over 2000 Meters by Gunnar Treff and co-authors in the German Journal of Sports Medicine, June 2021.
Treff is the chief Physiologist of the German Rowing Association and a researcher at the University of Ulm in the group of Prof. Steinacker (co-author), an established authority in rowing science.

Here are a few extracts that are particularly relevant for breathing:

The sitting position of the rower, the involvement of a large muscle mass and the structure of the rowing cycle, consisting of drive and recovery phase, where the rower slides back and forth on a sliding seat, affect the cardiovascular and respiratory system in a unique manner. ...

The structure of the rowing stroke imposes Valsalva-like maneuvers because especially at the begin of the drive phase (..) rowers hold their breath to stabilize the core, which means an increase in intra-thoriac pressure and high isometric cardiac stress by a transient increase in LV afterload. In the second part of the rowing cycle, the recovery phase (i.e when the rower slides forward and does not apply force to the handle) the pressure is released...

The aforementioned effects of the rowing cycle are particularly relevant for pulmonary function and breathing mechanics because the respiratory muscles face a dual demand: they assist in the propulsive force generation and are also an effector of ventilatory control. Since stroke and respiratory rate increase in concert, breathing is increasingly entrained. At high work rates with high respiratory frequencies, the time constraints on breathing result in high peak flow of more than 10 L/s, a dynamic compression of the airways occurs during expiration and tidal volume reaches the flat part of the thoriac compliance curve. The ventilatory response is characterized by restricted tidal volumes and flow constraints for breathing. Hence, large airways and lung volumes are important for rowers. Of note, lung capacity has been reported to be as high as 11.68 L.

In short: rowers are not free to breath, unlike cyclists ; breathing is constrained and has to be synchronized to the stroke phase ; lung capacity is important ; at high intensity rowers can get short of breath.

Although I am not a self-declared physiological expert, I can easily see why training the inspiratory muscles makes sense.

Look, it doesn't matter how constrained breathing is in rowing (or any other sport) unless arterial oxygenation is affected. Your reference gives reasons why it should be a problem without providing any evidence it really is. And, if you want to discuss constricted breathing consider the cyclist in the aerodynamic position where the shoulders and arms are reasonably fixed and the position tends to restrict diaphragmatic movement. Having done both I can assure you the cyclist sees more constricted breathing. I am simply unaware of any evidence that breathing limits oxygen delivery in any way in either the cyclist or the rower despite the potential issues.

[Tsnor]

Suggest we let Nomath run his test and then look at the results.

If would be a shame to convince him to stop now, and we'll have a preliminary answer that is true for Nomath in a few weeks (3? 6?)

[Tsnor]

I am simply unaware of any evidence that breathing limits oxygen delivery in any way in either the cyclist or the rower despite the potential issues.

FWIW many coaches including mine believe that the rowing position makes it difficult to breathe. They spend time reminding us to Breathe, Sit UP, Head UP, Strong Chest during recovery so that we can get a lungful.

You can also find medical studies such as this one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22526249/ "The influence of rowing-related postures upon respiratory muscle pressure and flow generating capacity" which pretty much say that rowing posture limits oxygen delivery in rowing. "...During the rowing stroke, the respiratory muscles are responsible for postural control, trunk stabilisation, generation/transmission of propulsive forces and ventilation (Bierstacker et al. in Int J Sports Med 7:73-79, 1986; Mahler et al. in Med Sci Sports Exerc 23:186-193, 1991). The challenge of these potentially competing requirements is exacerbated in certain parts of the rowing stroke due to flexed (stroke 'catch') and extended postures (stroke 'finish'). .."

[max_ratcliffe]

I am simply unaware of any evidence that breathing limits oxygen delivery in any way in either the cyclist or the rower despite the potential issues.

FWIW many coaches including mine believe that the rowing position makes it difficult to breathe. They spend time reminding us to Breathe, Sit UP, Head UP, Strong Chest during recovery so that we can get a lungful.

You can also find medical studies such as this one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22526249/ "The influence of rowing-related postures upon respiratory muscle pressure and flow generating capacity" which pretty much say that rowing posture limits oxygen delivery in rowing. "...During the rowing stroke, the respiratory muscles are responsible for postural control, trunk stabilisation, generation/transmission of propulsive forces and ventilation (Bierstacker et al. in Int J Sports Med 7:73-79, 1986; Mahler et al. in Med Sci Sports Exerc 23:186-193, 1991). The challenge of these potentially competing requirements is exacerbated in certain parts of the rowing stroke due to flexed (stroke 'catch') and extended postures (stroke 'finish'). .."

Moreover, the inhalation at the catch is when your body's fully compressed and an exhalation on the drive is done when the body is extending and would probably rather breathe in than out.

Of course there are different breathing strategies, but the breath at the catch helps with the partial valsalver to stabilise the spine.

The rowing stroke and breathing do appear to have conflicting demands that are different from the hunched position used in cycling. Fwiw, the skierg is the other way around, so the exhalation is on the drive when the hips close.

[frankencrank]

I am simply unaware of any evidence that breathing limits oxygen delivery in any way in either the cyclist or the rower despite the potential issues.

FWIW many coaches including mine believe that the rowing position makes it difficult to breathe. They spend time reminding us to Breathe, Sit UP, Head UP, Strong Chest during recovery so that we can get a lungful.

You can also find medical studies such as this one https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22526249/ "The influence of rowing-related postures upon respiratory muscle pressure and flow generating capacity" which pretty much say that rowing posture limits oxygen delivery in rowing. "...During the rowing stroke, the respiratory muscles are responsible for postural control, trunk stabilisation, generation/transmission of propulsive forces and ventilation (Bierstacker et al. in Int J Sports Med 7:73-79, 1986; Mahler et al. in Med Sci Sports Exerc 23:186-193, 1991). The challenge of these potentially competing requirements is exacerbated in certain parts of the rowing stroke due to flexed (stroke 'catch') and extended postures (stroke 'finish'). .."

Moreover, the inhalation at the catch is when your body's fully compressed and an exhalation on the drive is done when the body is extending and would probably rather breathe in than out.

Of course there are different breathing strategies, but the breath at the catch helps with the partial valsalver to stabilise the spine.

The rowing stroke and breathing do appear to have conflicting demands that are different from the hunched position used in cycling. Fwiw, the skierg is the other way around, so the exhalation is on the drive when the hips close.

Would somebody show me some data that shows arterial oxygenation is reduced in rowers for any reason, let alone breathing issues. Then we can talk about the mechanism. If arterial oxygen is not reduced then these supposed issues are negligible. Pulse oximeters are readily available and cheap. Put one one when you are rowing and see what happens. The only time one might expect a small drop is when one goes anaerobic because of reduced PvO2 and shunt mixing.

[jamesg]

Training for sport is do everything as if in a race; otherwise it's not training. In rowing the sole exception allowed is rating.

KIS, aka Occam's razor. Pull every stroke at race quality and all body functions will have to follow, breathing included.

[frankencrank]

Training for sport is do everything as if in a race; otherwise it's not training. In rowing the sole exception allowed is rating.

What do you mean? This makes no sense to me.

[Mortie31]

Would somebody show me some data that shows arterial oxygenation is reduced in rowers for any reason, let alone breathing issues. Then we can talk about the mechanism. If arterial oxygen is not reduced then these supposed issues are negligible. Pulse oximeters are readily available and cheap. Put one one when you are rowing and see what happens. The only time one might expect a small drop is when one goes anaerobic because of reduced PvO2 and shunt mixing.

@Frankencrank
Not scientific at all, but when I got my iwatch6 I took my O2 levels on several occasions post row and tried really hard to totally exhaust myself and could never get it below 100%!! I pushed to my absolute limit as well. I have no idea on the accuracy of an Iwatch 02 sensor, but was fun to try as I really expected it to be low as I pushed so hard.. and I’m not particularly fit and dont have a long history of endurance training. I also have a powerbreathe which I used religiously for a few months, I defiantly saw an improvement in the amount of restriction I could breathe through, but didn’t see any measurable improvement in rowing pace, but one positive thing I will say about them is if you have a cold they are damn good at loosening your lungs up

[Nomath]

@ frankencrank & mortie31
I can't stand such uncurious, lazy attitudes. A simple internet search shows various examples of decreased oxygen saturation with exercise.
Simple pulse oxiometers in which you insert a finger tip use a pair of LEDs at different wavelengths, usually 660 and 940 nm. I definitely see a decreased oxygen saturation in my finger immediately after ending a high intensity training. The saturation recovers in a few seconds. The device is not suitable for measuring while rowing.

I guess the Iwatch is just a show-me-off device.

[Mortie31]

@ frankencrank & mortie31
I can't stand such uncurious, lazy attitudes. A simple internet search shows various examples of decreased oxygen saturation with exercise.
Simple pulse oxiometers in which you insert a finger tip use a pair of LEDs at different wavelengths, usually 660 and 940 nm. I definitely see a decreased oxygen saturation in my finger immediately after ending a high intensity training. The saturation recovers in a few seconds. The device is not suitable for measuring while rowing.

I guess the Iwatch is just a show-me-off device.

Hey chill out, as I’ve said I’ve tried a powerbreathe and still have it! Just didn’t see any improvement in my rowing performance, and as I said I can’t vouch for iwatch O2 accuracy, but having taken several readings immediately after exercise I always get 100%, I will then see a dip in 02 levels over the next hour or so, sometimes as low as 94% and then it recovers back up. I trigger a reading after exercise whilst still gasping sat on the rower so it isn’t a random reading or anything.

[max_ratcliffe]

@ frankencrank & mortie31
I can't stand such uncurious, lazy attitudes. A simple internet search shows various examples of decreased oxygen saturation with exercise.
Simple pulse oxiometers in which you insert a finger tip use a pair of LEDs at different wavelengths, usually 660 and 940 nm. I definitely see a decreased oxygen saturation in my finger immediately after ending a high intensity training. The saturation recovers in a few seconds. The device is not suitable for measuring while rowing.

I guess the Iwatch is just a show-me-off device.

Hey chill out, as I’ve said I’ve tried a powerbreathe and still have it! Just didn’t see any improvement in my rowing performance, and as I said I can’t vouch for iwatch O2 accuracy, but having taken several readings immediately after exercise I always get 100%, I will then see a dip in 02 levels over the next hour or so, sometimes as low as 94% and then it recovers back up. I trigger a reading after exercise whilst still gasping sat on the rower so it isn’t a random reading or anything.

Yeah, bit harsh Nomath.

Interesting that you ever read 100%. From what little I understand, the o2 levels are usually a bit less than 100% (but I can't remember why ).

The co2 levels are the really interesting ones as the urge to breathe is controlled by co2 levels increasing, not by o2 levels decreasing.

I've been watching some of Patrick McKeown's stuff. There's more than a whiff of snake oil about it, but the contention is that over breathing reduces co2 levels too far and that inhibits the Bohr effect. The Bohr effect (from Niels's dad apparently) is a real thing and means that oxygen is released better when co2 signals that the o2 is needed. Anyway, I'm just parroting stuff because I'm no expert, but could the powerbreathe actually worsen the over breathing so any benefits from the stronger muscles are counteracted?

[Mortie31]

@ frankencrank & mortie31
I can't stand such uncurious, lazy attitudes. A simple internet search shows various examples of decreased oxygen saturation with exercise.
Simple pulse oxiometers in which you insert a finger tip use a pair of LEDs at different wavelengths, usually 660 and 940 nm. I definitely see a decreased oxygen saturation in my finger immediately after ending a high intensity training. The saturation recovers in a few seconds. The device is not suitable for measuring while rowing.

I guess the Iwatch is just a show-me-off device.

Hey chill out, as I’ve said I’ve tried a powerbreathe and still have it! Just didn’t see any improvement in my rowing performance, and as I said I can’t vouch for iwatch O2 accuracy, but having taken several readings immediately after exercise I always get 100%, I will then see a dip in 02 levels over the next hour or so, sometimes as low as 94% and then it recovers back up. I trigger a reading after exercise whilst still gasping sat on the rower so it isn’t a random reading or anything.

Yeah, bit harsh Nomath.

Interesting that you ever read 100%. From what little I understand, the o2 levels are usually a bit less than 100% (but I can't remember why ).

The co2 levels are the really interesting ones as the urge to breathe is controlled by co2 levels increasing, not by o2 levels decreasing.

I've been watching some of Patrick McKeown's stuff. There's more than a whiff of snake oil about it, but the contention is that over breathing reduces co2 levels too far and that inhibits the Bohr effect. The Bohr effect (from Niels's dad apparently) is a real thing and means that oxygen is released better when co2 signals that the o2 is needed. Anyway, I'm just parroting stuff because I'm no expert, but could the powerbreathe actually worsen the over breathing so any benefits from the stronger muscles are counteracted?

Yeah the whole subject is interesting, I’ve read similar things also that our panting type expiration is due to not only C02 levels but also due to lactate breaking down into hydrogen ions that we then exhale, leading to the burning throat sometime experienced after really hard sessions.. how these affect O2 levels I have no idea, I can only go by what I’ve measured… but as I said in my initial post I’m no endurance athlete just a very keen trier and my results may be totally different, due to this… I’ve only ever tested after short hard sessions, ie 2k’s, it may be that longer threshold rows show different results, I’ll measure after I do my next one..

[Mortie31]

Hey chill out, as I’ve said I’ve tried a powerbreathe and still have it! Just didn’t see any improvement in my rowing performance, and as I said I can’t vouch for iwatch O2 accuracy, but having taken several readings immediately after exercise I always get 100%, I will then see a dip in 02 levels over the next hour or so, sometimes as low as 94% and then it recovers back up. I trigger a reading after exercise whilst still gasping sat on the rower so it isn’t a random reading or anything.

Yeah, bit harsh Nomath.

Interesting that you ever read 100%. From what little I understand, the o2 levels are usually a bit less than 100% (but I can't remember why ).

The co2 levels are the really interesting ones as the urge to breathe is controlled by co2 levels increasing, not by o2 levels decreasing.

I've been watching some of Patrick McKeown's stuff. There's more than a whiff of snake oil about it, but the contention is that over breathing reduces co2 levels too far and that inhibits the Bohr effect. The Bohr effect (from Niels's dad apparently) is a real thing and means that oxygen is released better when co2 signals that the o2 is needed. Anyway, I'm just parroting stuff because I'm no expert, but could the powerbreathe actually worsen the over breathing so any benefits from the stronger muscles are counteracted?

Yeah the whole subject is interesting, I’ve read similar things also that our panting type expiration is due to not only C02 levels but also due to lactate breaking down into hydrogen ions that we then exhale, leading to the burning throat sometime experienced after really hard sessions.. how these affect O2 levels I have no idea, I can only go by what I’ve measured… but as I said in my initial post I’m no endurance athlete just a very keen trier and my results may be totally different, due to this… I’ve only ever tested after short hard sessions, ie 2k’s, it may be that longer threshold rows show different results, I’ll measure after I do my next one..

Just done some 02 readings immediately after a few rows of different intensities and duration
30mins @VT1 HR level 137 bpm 02= 97%
5k @ approx VT2 HR 162bpm 02 = 97%
Hard short row (2min 44 secs) stopped on reaching max HR 187 02 = 98%
1 hour sub VT1 128bpm 02 = 97%
All of theses we’re done back to back in 2hours of nearly continuous rowing.
Non of this really shows me anything other than 02 levels (as measured by iwatch) seem to be unaffected by these rows, neither duration or intensity, were they hard/long enough to force a change? The max HR did surprise me as I had always seen 100% 02 previously albeit in longer max HR rows. When I do the CTC I will measure then that will force me to hold max HR for longer than today.

[frankencrank]

@ frankencrank & mortie31
I can't stand such uncurious, lazy attitudes. A simple internet search shows various examples of decreased oxygen saturation with exercise.

LOL

Simple pulse oxiometers in which you insert a finger tip use a pair of LEDs at different wavelengths, usually 660 and 940 nm. I definitely see a decreased oxygen saturation in my finger immediately after ending a high intensity training.

That is easily explained and has nothing to do with breathing

The saturation recovers in a few seconds. The device is not suitable for measuring while rowing.

Why not?

I guess the Iwatch is just a show-me-off device.

The watch uses the same technology as the finger pulse oximeter.