Training Zones

[cannondalerugby5]

Hi All,
Just getting back into erging after a period of enjoying the bike.
Thought I would do some research into effective training zones.
Based on what I have been reading, It would appear that my old effort/intervals may not be giving me the best training effect.
I have given a example of todays below;
6 x 1000k capped at 24 with a 2.30 rest
Results;
Pace Rate HR at End % HR based on HR Reserve Calc(164 -48 x % plus 48)
1. 1k 1.56.8 23 117 68%
2.1k 1.55.4 23 124 71%
3.1k 1.54.7 23 128 75%
4.1k 1.53.6 23 134 76%
5. 1k 1.52.6 23 138 80%
6.1k 1.48.6 24 144 85%

Target pace was based on 2k(think) plus 7 = 1.57
With my new level of thinking it would appear that this session, with the exception of the last rep ,would have no AT2 benefit i.e a waste of time!
Reps 2,3,4,5 were UT1!!
Thoughts for the future;
Go at a faster pace.
Reduce rest to 1 min so they almost become a 6k and a UT1 session
All in all the above session was not very beneficial?
Thoughts and observations would be appreciated.
Thanks
Steve

[hjs]

Steve, why do/did you think your 2k would be 1.50? Thats sounds very modest.
Looking at the session, you should be a good bit faster.

But maybe, its not such a bad thing to start out relative easy and pick the pace up.

Re 2k a balls to the wall 4x1k on 5 rest will be close to 2k plus 1 pace.

And I do think your main goal will be the sprints? In that case overcooking stuff like this is certainly not needed.

[cannondalerugby5]

Hi Henry,
Thanks for reply.
Arriving at a 2k pace;
When I was building up to my sprint attempts last year(27th July 2019) I did a 2 k TT at 1.47 rate 28.This was at the start of a 4 month training block.
Nov 2019 2 TT blew up -500 1.41,1000k 1.48.5 blew just after 1k !!
9th Nov 2019 1k TT 1.34.2.
Here is the interesting bit did 4 x 2k at rate 28 on 20th Oct 2019 ,last rep 1.48.7.
So a year ago around 1.46 - 1.48 (long way from 2006 when it was 1.35 )
I think that today I cannot be faster than 1.50 so thats what I am basing training on. Don't want to do a 2k TT
Yes,Henry my main goal is sprints, never want to row a 2 k again.
So you think I should be doing the 1ks close to 1.50 ish with a bigger rest.
First 5 reps were therefore a waste of time, are we agreed on that?
In your last comment ,ref overcooking, could you please explain a bit more?
Cheers
Steve

[hjs]

Hi Henry,
Thanks for reply.
Arriving at a 2k pace;
When I was building up to my sprint attempts last year(27th July 2019) I did a 2 k TT at 1.47 rate 28.This was at the start of a 4 month training block.
Nov 2019 2 TT blew up -500 1.41,1000k 1.48.5 blew just after 1k !!
9th Nov 2019 1k TT 1.34.2.
Here is the interesting bit did 4 x 2k at rate 28 on 20th Oct 2019 ,last rep 1.48.7.
So a year ago around 1.46 - 1.48 (long way from 2006 when it was 1.35 )
I think that today I cannot be faster than 1.50 so thats what I am basing training on. Don't want to do a 2k TT
Yes,Henry my main goal is sprints, never want to row a 2 k again.
So you think I should be doing the 1ks close to 1.50 ish with a bigger rest.
First 5 reps were therefore a waste of time, are we agreed on that?
In your last comment ,ref overcooking, could you please explain a bit more?
Cheers
Steve

Cheers

Think there was nothing wrong with this session. I get the 2k fear. I am not yet your age, but no springchicken also

You can slowly build this session faster. By “overcooking” I ment, its easy to do this session hard, but that would dig in your recovery much more. So play it on the safe side, your main work is your strenght and speed. If you would want to take risks, use it for those sessions.
The more sprinter you are, the more taxing sessions like these can be. I would certainly not call this a waisted session, comparing it with last year, it looked good.

[cannondalerugby5]

Hi Henry,
Thanks for reply.
Arriving at a 2k pace;
When I was building up to my sprint attempts last year(27th July 2019) I did a 2 k TT at 1.47 rate 28.This was at the start of a 4 month training block.
Nov 2019 2 TT blew up -500 1.41,1000k 1.48.5 blew just after 1k !!
9th Nov 2019 1k TT 1.34.2.
Here is the interesting bit did 4 x 2k at rate 28 on 20th Oct 2019 ,last rep 1.48.7.
So a year ago around 1.46 - 1.48 (long way from 2006 when it was 1.35 )
I think that today I cannot be faster than 1.50 so thats what I am basing training on. Don't want to do a 2k TT
Yes,Henry my main goal is sprints, never want to row a 2 k again.
So you think I should be doing the 1ks close to 1.50 ish with a bigger rest.
First 5 reps were therefore a waste of time, are we agreed on that?
In your last comment ,ref overcooking, could you please explain a bit more?
Cheers
Steve

Cheers

Think there was nothing wrong with this session. I get the 2k fear. I am not yet your age, but no springchicken also

You can slowly build this session faster. By “overcooking” I ment, its easy to do this session hard, but that would dig in your recovery much more. So play it on the safe side, your main work is your strenght and speed. If you would want to take risks, use it for those sessions.
The more sprinter you are, the more taxing sessions like these can be. I would certainly not call this a waisted session, comparing it with last year, it looked good.

Thanks for motivation and advice Henry,
Think I will do 1 of these type sessions per week getting faster as you suggest
2 HIT sessions of 30sec/15 sec per week building on number of reps
1 UT1 session per week

Unless I get really p eed off,as I am 4 years out of age group and 6 years to next age group, and get back on the bike!!

[le grand fromage]

Hi Steve,
Just a thought for a sprinter like yourself, estimate what your 2k time could be by extrapolating from the Jensen 2k erg power profile. Do the 10s and 60s tests and work back from there what you could be able to do at 2k.

Also FWIW I don't think there are any wasted metres on the erg. Not for nothing do some training programmes have a UT3 level

[cannondalerugby5]

Morning Richard
Hope your well and thanks for input.
Totally understand your ‘no wasted meters’ comment and agree.
My challenge is that I often question ‘am I putting enough effort into the session’.
I have a number of bad habits when training I.e;
2k reps - strong first 500m then drop back to easier pace
2k reps - often pull split average down with strong last couple of minutes
My last rep is always much faster than the rest
Heart rate only on target zone generally on last rep
Guess I am just lazy
Thanks for heads up on Jensen calc.
Just input some numbers and I must be doing something wrong
Based on my 60 second score from last year would put me just under 6 min 2k!!
Presume you do the 10 sec and 60 sec test at normal 2k rate I.e 28/30 ?

[hjs]

Morning Richard
Hope your well and thanks for input.
Totally understand your ‘no wasted meters’ comment and agree.
My challenge is that I often question ‘am I putting enough effort into the session’.
I have a number of bad habits when training I.e;
2k reps - strong first 500m then drop back to easier pace
2k reps - often pull split average down with strong last couple of minutes
My last rep is always much faster than the rest
Heart rate only on target zone generally on last rep
Guess I am just lazy
Thanks for heads up on Jensen calc.
Just input some numbers and I must be doing something wrong
Based on my 60 second score from last year would put me just under 6 min 2k!!
Presume you do the 10 sec and 60 sec test at normal 2k rate I.e 28/30 ?

Haha, Those tests are for pure rowers who are fully trained. You did nothing wrong, but simply very uneven in your results.

[cannondalerugby5]

Morning Richard
Hope your well and thanks for input.
Totally understand your ‘no wasted meters’ comment and agree.
My challenge is that I often question ‘am I putting enough effort into the session’.
I have a number of bad habits when training I.e;
2k reps - strong first 500m then drop back to easier pace
2k reps - often pull split average down with strong last couple of minutes
My last rep is always much faster than the rest
Heart rate only on target zone generally on last rep
Guess I am just lazy
Thanks for heads up on Jensen calc.
Just input some numbers and I must be doing something wrong
Based on my 60 second score from last year would put me just under 6 min 2k!!
Presume you do the 10 sec and 60 sec test at normal 2k rate I.e 28/30 ?

Just done the 1 min within my weights
1.28 at 30 rate
This puts me on a 6.48 projected 2 k time
Wish it was real but I will now calculate reps based on 6.48
That will at least make the training harder

[le grand fromage]

Lol, FWIW Steve I was lying in bed last night mulling over what I'd said and realised you will probably get a really fast 2k time Glad to see I was right

I find the erg power profile a good tool to check how training is going and to estimate a 2k time for me but I'd guess I'm a more 'balanced' rower as I train all the time over a range of distances. For someone who is mainly a top end sprinter I can easily see how the 2k estimate could be screwed.

In saying that I don't think it would do you any harm to use for training as it will push you that bit more

[le grand fromage]

Sorry forgot to add to my last

"‘am I putting enough effort into the session’."

I'm probably not the best person to ask this as I loath sprints so training for them is not something I do, but for 2k you don't actually do that many sessions that require 'effort'. I train 6 times a week and only 2 of those will require me to question the meaning of life One will be an endurance type session 5 x1500 r5, 4 x 2k r5 or similar rate restricted at 28spm. The other is sprint stuff 8 x 500 r 3:30, 4 x 1kr5 or similar rate restricted at 32 spm. So I guess I'm saying, you don't need to all sessions eye's out.

[cannondalerugby5]

Lol, FWIW Steve I was lying in bed last night mulling over what I'd said and realised you will probably get a really fast 2k time Glad to see I was right

I find the erg power profile a good tool to check how training is going and to estimate a 2k time for me but I'd guess I'm a more 'balanced' rower as I train all the time over a range of distances. For someone who is mainly a top end sprinter I can easily see how the 2k estimate could be screwed.

In saying that I don't think it would do you any harm to use for training as it will push you that bit more

Didn’t intend to keep you awake Richard
Thought my results were a bit of the norm.
I will though knock a couple of seconds from my 2k plus targets