Plateaus

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
mict450
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Location: the good, ol' U S of A

Re: Plateaus

Post by mict450 » November 19th, 2020, 5:52 pm

Pretty darn good!
Eric, YOB:1954
Old, slow & getting more so
Shasta County, CA, small village USA

SchuCru
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Re: Plateaus

Post by SchuCru » November 20th, 2020, 7:34 am

hjs wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:39 pm
SchuCru wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:05 pm
RJS - Sheesh, too kind by far but thank you.

The test video was at 24 s/m, damper 6/DF at 158, and pace at 1:45/500m.

What I think I see wrong:
- A little curve in the spine (not quite neutral)
- Heels coming up (but staying "connected" so I'm ok with this?)
- Left knee kicks up much higher than right (Old injuries showing themselves)
- Some overreach at the catch? (but it doesn't feel strained when I am rowing)
- Too far back on the seat (didn't take as much time to set up correctly in my haste to start)
- Knees broke a little early a couple of times

What I think I see right:
- Shoulders relaxed
- Reasonable sequence (legs, torso, arms at roughly 60%, 30%, 10%)
- Good rhythm and breathing

Thank you for the suggestion of taping this. Already giving me things to work on!
Really details, overall only thing you can work on drag. 158 is high, 125/35 is more common.
And heals should come up, only when you have super flexible ankles you can keep them down, but thats rare.
Spine is fine, lower back should neutral, upper not.
You don’t overreach.
All of the input has been great. It took a couple of reads to register your note on the DF. I totally forgot I had set it higher for the previous days PR at the 2K. For 2k I have found that it is harder for me to hold a respectable pace with a lower DF. For 500m and lower I just row at 10/218. For all the longer rows I am right around 135-138. I need to stay between 22-24 s/m for longer rows. When I don't I immediately see it in my HR, which is likely accompanied by a simultaneous deterioration in form (according to the force screen).

I have done a number of the Dark Horse "DF" drills and use those as the basis for my efforts to date. But now that you mention it, I will try a 2k in the near future using a lower DF and compare the results. Thanks again, Neil
Started rowing : 19 April 2020. 6' 0", 235 lbs
SB: 2k = 8:15; 5k 20:00; 10k = 45:00; HM = 95:00
PB: 2k = 6:57; 5k = 18:21; 10k = 38:07; HM = 83:58; FM = 2:58; 50km = 3:45

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hjs
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Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Plateaus

Post by hjs » November 20th, 2020, 11:40 am

SchuCru wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 7:34 am
hjs wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:39 pm
SchuCru wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 5:05 pm
RJS - Sheesh, too kind by far but thank you.

The test video was at 24 s/m, damper 6/DF at 158, and pace at 1:45/500m.

What I think I see wrong:
- A little curve in the spine (not quite neutral)
- Heels coming up (but staying "connected" so I'm ok with this?)
- Left knee kicks up much higher than right (Old injuries showing themselves)
- Some overreach at the catch? (but it doesn't feel strained when I am rowing)
- Too far back on the seat (didn't take as much time to set up correctly in my haste to start)
- Knees broke a little early a couple of times

What I think I see right:
- Shoulders relaxed
- Reasonable sequence (legs, torso, arms at roughly 60%, 30%, 10%)
- Good rhythm and breathing

Thank you for the suggestion of taping this. Already giving me things to work on!
Really details, overall only thing you can work on drag. 158 is high, 125/35 is more common.
And heals should come up, only when you have super flexible ankles you can keep them down, but thats rare.
Spine is fine, lower back should neutral, upper not.
You don’t overreach.
All of the input has been great. It took a couple of reads to register your note on the DF. I totally forgot I had set it higher for the previous days PR at the 2K. For 2k I have found that it is harder for me to hold a respectable pace with a lower DF. For 500m and lower I just row at 10/218. For all the longer rows I am right around 135-138. I need to stay between 22-24 s/m for longer rows. When I don't I immediately see it in my HR, which is likely accompanied by a simultaneous deterioration in form (according to the force screen).

I have done a number of the Dark Horse "DF" drills and use those as the basis for my efforts to date. But now that you mention it, I will try a 2k in the near future using a lower DF and compare the results. Thanks again, Neil
Welcome, think you got room to improve here. If you need a higher drag there is room for improvement. That will take some time to get used to.

For shorter work, higher drags are common. 218 is super high, thats very difficult to keep going. Even the Wr guys do not use such a high drag. But some people simply like the slower, heavy feel. In itself any drag is valid.

SchuCru
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Joined: November 19th, 2020, 8:58 am

Re: Plateaus

Post by SchuCru » November 20th, 2020, 12:51 pm

[/quote]

Welcome, think you got room to improve here. If you need a higher drag there is room for improvement. That will take some time to get used to.

For shorter work, higher drags are common. 218 is super high, thats very difficult to keep going. Even the Wr guys do not use such a high drag. But some people simply like the slower, heavy feel. In itself any drag is valid.
[/quote]

Thank you. I'll try working with lower drag on the short rows. So far at 500m and under I can't maintain a 1:30 pace unless the damper is on 10. I think the first obvious change is that I will have to row a much higher stroke rate to even get close. Which will immediately translate into a much higher heartrate. Still new to this so the experimentation should prove enlightening.
Started rowing : 19 April 2020. 6' 0", 235 lbs
SB: 2k = 8:15; 5k 20:00; 10k = 45:00; HM = 95:00
PB: 2k = 6:57; 5k = 18:21; 10k = 38:07; HM = 83:58; FM = 2:58; 50km = 3:45

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hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 10076
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Plateaus

Post by hjs » November 20th, 2020, 1:01 pm

SchuCru wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 12:51 pm


Welcome, think you got room to improve here. If you need a higher drag there is room for improvement. That will take some time to get used to.

For shorter work, higher drags are common. 218 is super high, thats very difficult to keep going. Even the Wr guys do not use such a high drag. But some people simply like the slower, heavy feel. In itself any drag is valid.


Thank you. I'll try working with lower drag on the short rows. So far at 500m and under I can't maintain a 1:30 pace unless the damper is on 10. I think the first obvious change is that I will have to row a much higher stroke rate to even get close. Which will immediately translate into a much higher heartrate. Still new to this so the experimentation should prove enlightening.
Remember sprinting is a very different beast. Rating 40 and above is key and talking about hf is not needed.
Training for 2k and above is different. Looking at your draguse I do think you got room to make your stroke stronger. Also, don’t know if you already do, but use low ratings.

Both the lowering of the drag and getting used to lower ratings should go in smaller steps.

Racing and testing is not rate restricted, use what feels best and natural.

iangallagher
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Posts: 478
Joined: May 7th, 2020, 2:05 am

Re: Plateaus

Post by iangallagher » November 21st, 2020, 3:46 am

Really lovely technique mate. Far far better than mine and it looks like we've been rowing about the same time - except you've put in more meters. Looking great! I'd have to say based off your numbers and physique and technique and then just comparing yourself with me - you have a lot of room to seriously improve. your power is great - rowing some great times at a lower stroke rate. As you get fitter and start getting used to higher stroke rates you're gonna do some damage!
Stick at it mate - the next 6 months will yield some great numbers!
182cm; 89kg; 1km = 2.57.5; 2km = 6.19; 4mins = 1296; 5km = 16.49; 6km = 20.24; 30mins = 8605; 10km= 35.31; 60 minutes = 16205 HM = 1:18.50
Erging since May 2020

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