Accuracy of the PM5

[mict450]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0dzPz0tD5I

I thought the first video most interesting. Noted that Zach does not have a front loaded catch, as is stressed here on the forum, but more from the middle to the finish. Is this just appropriate for a single scull? Could this be a good technique to use on an erg?

My own uninformed opinion is that a mid loaded catch appears to place your legs & back in a more ergonomic position to support the bulk of the power generated, as well as place one's oars more in line with the travel of the boat.

Your thoughts & opinions are welcomed, especially from those who are actually OTW.

[jamesg]

Is this just appropriate for a single scull?

Yes, on the stationary erg we have to catch up with the flywheel and this needs 10-15 cm, according to how fast we move our entire body mass by front loading with the legs.

On water our 80-90 kg acting on the stretcher at the catch stops the 15kg boat dead, so the catch, if we drop the blades in quickly, is effectively instantaneous. Also, modern hatchets act as hydrofoils at the catch, where the blade at 45° to the boat is moving radially though the water. So front loading afloat is suicidal. Zac was probably using full size blades too...

[mict450]

Is this just appropriate for a single scull?

Yes, on the stationary erg we have to catch up with the flywheel and this needs 10-15 cm, according to how fast we move our entire body mass by front loading with the legs.

You make a good point. I forgot about the slack in the catch.

[lostboy]

So after my lifting work out this morning I went on the rower for 6 mins this morning, set it so I could see the watts, reduced the flywheel to 2. Focused on my drive, watts went up to 140avg, noticed the difference. Still have to search more, learn more, but I see where I need to go, I'll get there. Thanks to you all for suggestions, truly a caring community.

[Ombrax]

So after my lifting work out this morning I went on the rower for 6 mins this morning, set it so I could see the watts, reduced the flywheel to 2.

Damper lever at 2 is probably too low for you. Either bring it back up to 5, or better yet, set the PM to display the Drag Factor and adjust the damper so you're at DF = 110-130. Don't worry about the number setting of the damper lever - DF is what you want to set, and ~120 is a good place to start.

Regarding stroke rate, somewhere around 20 spm is the right ballpark for most training. It doesn't make any sense to waste energy zipping up and down the slide. High stroke rates are for sprints and racing. Right now stick to around 20 spm and get the energy into the flywheel by pushing HARD with your legs.

The rower is a great workout tool and you won't regret learning how to do it right.

Good Luck

[ampire]

So after my lifting work out this morning I went on the rower for 6 mins this morning, set it so I could see the watts, reduced the flywheel to 2. Focused on my drive, watts went up to 140avg, noticed the difference. Still have to search more, learn more, but I see where I need to go, I'll get there. Thanks to you all for suggestions, truly a caring community.

That is a nice amount of watts.

The lever position should not be viewed like using a cable low row machine and setting the pin selector to a bigger weight.

Instead lever position influences how much wind resistance (drag factor) is on the flywheel. The lever position determines how open the flywheel cage is to air, the more air intake, the more drag. Lower drag factor will have a faster flywheel acceleration and a slower flywheel deceleration, higher drag factor will have a slower flywheel acceleration and a faster flywheel deceleration.

You should set the drag factor to an appropriate setting for your workout. For example, if you are doing long slow distance at a low stroke per minute (such as 20) you might want a drag factor from 100 to 130. If you are doing a distance time trial, possibly 120 to 140. If you are doing a 500M sprint at 45 strokes per minute, you may want it as high as 160. The reason to have a higher drag factor for intervals is to increase how quickly the flywheel decelerates so that it supports a higher stroke per minute rating. A reason to have it lower for steady state is to decrease the strain on the back and also to teach a fast, strong, snappy catch and drive. When rowing at very high Strokes Per Minute (SPM, aka rating), you will want it to decelerate quicker because you will have a shorter recovery time between drives. However, it mostly depends on personal preference.

The lever position relative to a given drag factor is different on every machine.
As dust builds up on and in the fan cage, one Concept 2 will have a different drag factor than another Concept 2 at the same lever position. However, both machines will perform identically with the same drag factor setting. This allows you to calibrate different machines to the same drag even if they require different lever #.

To see the drag factor, go to your main menu- > Click More Options -> Click Display Drag Factor. Then start rowing and it will display.

[Citroen]

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... etting-101 has some more explanation of what everyone is telling you.

[lostboy]

Okay, now I'm starting to get it. Just finished one of the preset rows, 2000m flywheel at 4, 26spm, hard drive each stroke watt avg 147, finish time8:23.7, breathing harder after 8mins with that setup then when I was doing 5000m in 30mins with wheel at8. Watch more read more learn more. Not sure if that was a good performance but it's a starting point, and I'm still sweating.

[mitchel674]

Okay, now I'm starting to get it. Just finished one of the preset rows, 2000m flywheel at 4, 26spm, hard drive each stroke watt avg 147, finish time8:23.7, breathing harder after 8mins with that setup then when I was doing 5000m in 30mins with wheel at8. Watch more read more learn more. Not sure if that was a good performance but it's a starting point, and I'm still sweating.

Congrats and nice job on the 2k. I applaud your positive attitude and willingness to accept and incorporate the advice you've received here. It's refreshing.

Next step is to slow down your rate and try to maintain your power at each stroke. Try a 5k at 22 spm. Keep your eye on your watts or even watch the force curve while you row.

[lostboy]

Thank you, one thing I do know is that I don't know everything, once you think you do your done for. As a lifelong fitness enthusiast there's always room for growth, now that I'm getting the concepts and starting to understand what I need to do I'm on my way. My wife rows also and I consider her to be in better shape than me, was very interested in my new insights to rowing, now we'll share our rowing experiences which will help move us along.

[Dangerscouse]

Okay, now I'm starting to get it. Just finished one of the preset rows, 2000m flywheel at 4, 26spm, hard drive each stroke watt avg 147, finish time8:23.7, breathing harder after 8mins with that setup then when I was doing 5000m in 30mins with wheel at8. Watch more read more learn more. Not sure if that was a good performance but it's a starting point, and I'm still sweating.

Don't think about what is good atm, just note down what you have done and improve on that. You're going to keep improving, and with your attitude, you will improve quicker than a lot of people

[ampire]

Okay, now I'm starting to get it. Just finished one of the preset rows, 2000m flywheel at 4, 26spm, hard drive each stroke watt avg 147, finish time8:23.7, breathing harder after 8mins with that setup then when I was doing 5000m in 30mins with wheel at8. Watch more read more learn more. Not sure if that was a good performance but it's a starting point, and I'm still sweating.

Nice work, and as you have a strength background you may be near 7:00 in a month or two if you stay consistent.

[lostboy]

Still been working at it but been kinda busy too so only about three rows per week mostly on that preset 2000m after my weight workout. Time is getting better, watt avg 147, still I don't feel smooth with my stroke but I'm guessing it'll get better with time. Sailing and boating season is winding down for me but bird hunting is starting this month so out in the fields for hours with my dog, by Dec I'll be indoors more and will develop a more consistent routine.

[mromero680]

I find that I'm kind of amazed by the rower every season. I look at where I start and where I was the previous year and I wonder how I was that much faster. It takes a while but if I focus on form and I mix some long rows with intervals I see steady enough improvements to keep motivated. The C2 rower is kind of miraculous...if you put in the meters you can almost watch your fitness improve in real time. You'll look back at these posts in a couple months and be amazed at your progress.

[frankencrank]

... but pushing off hard with my legs on the drive as I'm a 400lb squatter so lots of power on the push, haven't looked at the watts, usually set on just row.

Just row doesn't mean you can't see watts. Change your screen to look at watts or use the ErgData app. What determines how fast you are going is your average watts, not your peak watts. Pushing off hard with your legs won't do much if you don't brace your back or if your arms are bent and they give way. And, you have to keep the force up the entire stroke. It just sounds like your technique is awful. Go to a lighter drag setting and try to learn to be smooth then bring the drag factor back up. A high drag factor can be a good thing if you have the right build and technique to go with it.