Improving my (beginning) training

[m06w41]

On again, off again rower here who is trying to get back on again. I've come back here since buying the erg and while my rowing is inconsistent, all the feedback here is fantastic.

Been doing the short and sometimes medium WOD posted on Concept2 for the past few weeks. I'm 51, about 190lbs, and after a couple of recent rows where I tried to huff it pretty quickly, i was gassed. So, I backed off, considered my options tried to assess my fitness and, remembering that I liked the structure of the Pete Plan gave it a shot beginning last week.

Initially, i didn't pay attention to my heart rate but this past weekend I spend time here looking at questions and realized that perhaps for the past couple of months, I've been rowing in a way that doesn't meet my goals. Maybe I've been pushing too hard because I thought that is was I needed to do...wear myself out, pain equals gain, right?

Last night I rowed the 5500m week 2 row and kept my SPM to about 18 and it seems like I was able to maintain an average pace of 2:28. But my heart rate climbed steadily with the last 10 minutes being >146bpm

I did some HR calcuations from here (http://www.fitnessforweightloss.com/how ... eart-rate/) knowing it is an estimate but gave some guideposts for me;

• WARMUP ONLY - Your UT2 band is a heart rate of 123 bpm to 139 bpm with a mean of 131 bpm.
  Your UT1 band is a heart rate of 140 bpm to 149 bpm with a mean of 144 bpm.
  Your AT band is a heart rate of 150 bpm to 154 bpm with a mean of 152 bpm.
  Your TR band is a heart rate of 155 bpm to 165 bpm with a mean of 160 bpm.
  Your AN band is a heart rate of 166 bpm to 170 bpm with a mean of 168 bpm.
  Your 70% heart rate is 139 bpm.
  Your 85% heart rate is 154 bpm.

Some context may be useful. I used to be a smoker (quit 7 years ago) and I'm still overweight so I always attributed my higher heart rate to simply the (lack of) physical shape I'm in. I've also got limited time at the moment as I am studying for the Level 2 exam for the CFA so my rowing is limited to evenings and I have about an hour total (including warmup and showering) to fit it in before hitting the books.

I'd like to focus on rowing for weight and reading here, that really means steady state rowing. But, the Pete Plan is right up my alley because I don't have to think about what I'm going to do, I look up the workout and get in the seat. Is it possible that I'm still pushing too hard and that perhaps I need to work to keep my HR lower than I did in my last row? Should I work on slowing down my spm more or slow my pace?

Training log is in my signature and thanks for the help.

[mitchel674]

The beginner Pete Plan still gives you plenty of opportunity for long rows each week. Consider doing the optional long row after you complete your three required rows.

As you found out, Pete never talks about heart rate for his plans, but you would likely be best served by keeping your HR a bit lower on the lengthening rows each week with a HR cap of 135.

[m06w41]

Got it, thanks for the suggestion.

To reduce my HR, since I'm rowing at about 18 spm, the next step is to reduce my pace or should I slow the spm down as well?

[Dangerscouse]

Got it, thanks for the suggestion.

To reduce my HR, since I'm rowing at about 18 spm, the next step is to reduce my pace or should I slow the spm down as well?

I'd not recommend going under r18, so slow down the pace accordingly.

Wanting to produce a faster pace is natural but it's detrimental if a HR cap is your goal, as you won't get as much benefit from your training if you push the slower sessions into a faster pace

[m06w41]

Perfect - thanks. I hope perhaps with continued effort one day my HR will gravitate lower as it takes less effort to move less (of my) mass.

[iain]

I would love to know how they claim to be within 6BPM of HRmax based solely on age. I am aware of 2 people within 2 years of each other with HRmax 36BPM apart. You really need to have a better estimate before you worry about HR. Pete is not a fan of training by HR and at your stage of training you should progress rapidly merely by rowing a decent distance regularly so HR training is not essential. If you stick with it and want to achieve your best times, then you may want to revisit that. Alternately, if you want to train by HR then I would suggest doing your next 5.5k (or similar) hard, accelerating in the last 500 to max. This will get close to your HRmax and will be a better estimate than any formula.

If you do find that your HRmax is not significantly above your estimate, it is likely that you are just short of base fitness. This is best improved at a slow pace. I had a similar issue and rejected HR training for many years as my HR would be up to AT during very modest rows of 30 mins. After a diet of long rows (>an hour 3+ times per week) with some PP sessions, I can now hold a pace of around 5k + 24S for > an hour below 75% of HRmax, still poor, but a definite improvement. On longer rows, you need to ensure your technique doesn't get sloppy (mine does without close attention). Rowing with the stroke profile graph helps as does paying attention to the key elements of the stroke in turn and concentrating on those aspects that have previously slipped. The weaker the stroke the more important this becomes. Some people find rowing strapless also helps.

The most important aspect of the plan at your stage is that you enjoy it enough to keep it up. If this means it is sub-optimal, it will still be much better than not exercising at all!

Whatever you decide, best of luck maintaining the rowing.

Iain

[lindsayh]

Initially, i didn't pay attention to my heart rate but this past weekend I spend time here looking at questions and realized that perhaps for the past couple of months, I've been rowing in a way that doesn't meet my goals. Maybe I've been pushing too hard because I thought that is was I needed to do...wear myself out, pain equals gain, right?

IMO there are no formulae that can be accurate enough to base your training on - way too much variability as mentioned above.
Pushing hard is counter productive and wont help either cardio fitness or facilitate weight loss.
Best to concentrate on slower long steady pieces with a stable heart rate - there is a lot of information around heart rate based training here once you know your real MHR and RHR. You need a hard 30' or interval piece to failure to find MHR.
It probably doesn't really matter at the moment as you can follow the BPP numbers and try to stay where you can still have a conversation as you row.

[m06w41]

@lindsayh and @iain - thanks for the details. I understand the limitations of the estimated HR from that website but began to get curious in part because I appeared to be near their top range when rowing. I'm not really militant about the heart rate but was confused how to proceed and I wondered if I was going about thing the wrong way consider my goals are 1) weight loss and 2) better overall fitness. However, knowing my recent history, as iain said, a lack of baseline fitness is probably where I'm still at. Certainly better than I was a couple months back but there's a fair amount of work to do. Depressing but it is what it is.

My MHR is estimated @ 170, RHR is 65 in the morning before I get out of bed.

Given the feedback, It seems fair to me that I should likely row slower and longer for my purposes. Certainly the last 5500m I did on Monday was tiring but not grueling and I was able to keep some conversation up with my wife but was sweating a bit. Heart rate was pretty stable but perhaps reducing the pace will help keep it a touch lower.

I like the Pete Plan because of the variety as I struggle with some boredom on longer rows. I posted a video here years ago but will upload another soon as there are likely areas I need to work on as well.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Dangerscouse]

Given the feedback, It seems fair to me that I should likely row slower and longer for my purposes. Certainly the last 5500m I did on Monday was tiring but not grueling and I was able to keep some conversation up with my wife but was sweating a bit. Heart rate was pretty stable but perhaps reducing the pace will help keep it a touch lower.

If your priorities are weight loss and fitness long and slow distances are your primary focus. HR, imo, should be used alongside RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) and if it feels about right, and your HR isn't sky high, you're probably in the right zone.

Some conversation or being able to sing a short part of a song are good indicators of going slow enough. Sweating, in my case at least, always happens more or less whatever pace I row at unless it's in an air con gym

[m06w41]

Thanks Dangerscouse! Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Slower seems the most appropriate way to go about this.

[mict450]

Following a formula for determining your max HR is good enough for government work. Using RPE, as Stu suggested, is even better to determine UT2 HR.

If I were you, which I'm not, I would ditch Pete Plan for now & just practice drills interspersed with some full strokes. Get your form down cold. I've practice this frequently in the past & am now doing it exclusively, since I recently purchased a Brand-X dynamic. Trying to iron out my stroke, so I'm not bouncing off the front & back stops. I'm also using a mirror for the first time. Helps to monitor my form & sequencing but unpleasant to be continuously gazing at my ugly mug!

[m06w41]

Following a formula for determining your max HR is good enough for government work. Using RPE, as Stu suggested, is even better to determine UT2 HR.

If I were you, which I'm not, I would ditch Pete Plan for now & just practice drills interspersed with some full strokes. Get your form down cold. I've practice this frequently in the past & am now doing it exclusively, since I recently purchased a Brand-X dynamic. Trying to iron out my stroke, so I'm not bouncing off the front & back stops. I'm also using a mirror for the first time. Helps to monitor my form & sequencing but unpleasant to be continuously gazing at my ugly mug!

Thanks for the suggestion mict450. I'm going to stick with PP because the format is working for me still. I've slowed down my effort somewhat during the long rows and it seems a 2:30 pace keeps my HR closer to 140ish. I even rowed while the wife and I were on a local vacation last week. The hotel had an C2 with PM5 and so stuck with it thought my diet suffered somewhat. It seems more natural to go harder than a 2:30 though...truth be told it's depressing to realize that I'm that out of shape but I'll stick with the suggestion from everyone. I hope that gets better over time and, from what I've gathered it should but man, I'd like to be in better overall shape. In fact, any shape other than round will suit me.

I'll post a form video for critique here in a few days as any input would be welcome. Been watching a lot of videos on form and years ago posted something here which really helped temper some of the beginners issues I had. Certainly worth getting more feedback.

Recently been watching TV while I row. I can't believe how quickly it goes. Last week, watched F1 qualifying what sitting in the seat and holy jeepers it went by quickly.