New Rower - Advice/Potential

[LMaster]

I'm a smaller guy at altitude (6k feet) in Colorado. 5'8", about 63kg(138lbs) when fit, sitting around 71kg right now. Roommates and I recently got a C2 to use during this quarantine period, and I've been having some fun on it just trying to get a feel for it. I find it's a nice complement to some of the cycling I do as it uses the muscles in a way quite opposite from cycling (upper body anyway).

I'm trying to get a feel for what's possible for me, and where to go. My first 20 or so sessions were easy stuff, just trying to ingrain something that resembles technique. Largely super easy stuff, HR around 110-120bpm (185 HRmax cycling) and between 2:10-2:20 pace, with occasional sprints. Those sprints started at 1:40 when I had zero idea of what I could do, and recently have gotten done to where I can get a few strokes 1:18-1:19.

Yesterday, did the first thing that remotely resembles a workout, 5x1000m w/2' recovery just trying to feel out paces:

1:56.9 r21
1:59.1 r19
1:54.0 r22
1:49.0 r26
1:53.9 r22

The first two were very easy, HR quickly flattening out at around 145bpm. Next one was still quite easy, but enough to bring HR up into the low 150s. Number 4 I got after it, started out at 1:44, but decided that was a bit much and alternated 1:44 with 1:54. That was moderately challenging, the first point where I felt like I was starting to work. Last interval was beginning to fatigue back/shoulders/arms, but aerobically fine, with HR leveling off in the mid 150s.

Few days ago for fun also messed around with a 500m as hard as I could and was 1:31.6.

In general it seems like I have some engine from cycling, but lack some of the technique/power on the rower. My legs are fine, but often even at easy HRs by the end my back/arms/shoulders are tiring and I just can't put down anymore power, even at a comfortable pace.

Question is, if I devote a focused training cycle to this, any rough guesses on what sort of 2k goal to target?

[Dangerscouse]

I'm a smaller guy at altitude (6k feet) in Colorado. 5'8", about 63kg(138lbs) when fit, sitting around 71kg right now. Roommates and I recently got a C2 to use during this quarantine period, and I've been having some fun on it just trying to get a feel for it. I find it's a nice complement to some of the cycling I do as it uses the muscles in a way quite opposite from cycling (upper body anyway).

I'm trying to get a feel for what's possible for me, and where to go. My first 20 or so sessions were easy stuff, just trying to ingrain something that resembles technique. Largely super easy stuff, HR around 110-120bpm (185 HRmax cycling) and between 2:10-2:20 pace, with occasional sprints. Those sprints started at 1:40 when I had zero idea of what I could do, and recently have gotten done to where I can get a few strokes 1:18-1:19.

Yesterday, did the first thing that remotely resembles a workout, 5x1000m w/2' recovery just trying to feel out paces:

1:56.9 r21
1:59.1 r19
1:54.0 r22
1:49.0 r26
1:53.9 r22

The first two were very easy, HR quickly flattening out at around 145bpm. Next one was still quite easy, but enough to bring HR up into the low 150s. Number 4 I got after it, started out at 1:44, but decided that was a bit much and alternated 1:44 with 1:54. That was moderately challenging, the first point where I felt like I was starting to work. Last interval was beginning to fatigue back/shoulders/arms, but aerobically fine, with HR leveling off in the mid 150s.

Few days ago for fun also messed around with a 500m as hard as I could and was 1:31.6.

In general it seems like I have some engine from cycling, but lack some of the technique/power on the rower. My legs are fine, but often even at easy HRs by the end my back/arms/shoulders are tiring and I just can't put down anymore power, even at a comfortable pace.

Question is, if I devote a focused training cycle to this, any rough guesses on what sort of 2k goal to target?

It's hard to tell as you're so early in your training so there will be more improvement to come.

It sounds like you're close to a seven minute 2k if you can do a 1:31 500m and you have strong aerobic base fitness.

[LMaster]

I'm a smaller guy at altitude (6k feet) in Colorado. 5'8", about 63kg(138lbs) when fit, sitting around 71kg right now. Roommates and I recently got a C2 to use during this quarantine period, and I've been having some fun on it just trying to get a feel for it. I find it's a nice complement to some of the cycling I do as it uses the muscles in a way quite opposite from cycling (upper body anyway).

I'm trying to get a feel for what's possible for me, and where to go. My first 20 or so sessions were easy stuff, just trying to ingrain something that resembles technique. Largely super easy stuff, HR around 110-120bpm (185 HRmax cycling) and between 2:10-2:20 pace, with occasional sprints. Those sprints started at 1:40 when I had zero idea of what I could do, and recently have gotten done to where I can get a few strokes 1:18-1:19.

Yesterday, did the first thing that remotely resembles a workout, 5x1000m w/2' recovery just trying to feel out paces:

1:56.9 r21
1:59.1 r19
1:54.0 r22
1:49.0 r26
1:53.9 r22

The first two were very easy, HR quickly flattening out at around 145bpm. Next one was still quite easy, but enough to bring HR up into the low 150s. Number 4 I got after it, started out at 1:44, but decided that was a bit much and alternated 1:44 with 1:54. That was moderately challenging, the first point where I felt like I was starting to work. Last interval was beginning to fatigue back/shoulders/arms, but aerobically fine, with HR leveling off in the mid 150s.

Few days ago for fun also messed around with a 500m as hard as I could and was 1:31.6.

In general it seems like I have some engine from cycling, but lack some of the technique/power on the rower. My legs are fine, but often even at easy HRs by the end my back/arms/shoulders are tiring and I just can't put down anymore power, even at a comfortable pace.

Question is, if I devote a focused training cycle to this, any rough guesses on what sort of 2k goal to target?

It's hard to tell as you're so early in your training so there will be more improvement to come.

It sounds like you're close to a seven minute 2k if you can do a 1:31 500m and you have strong aerobic base fitness.

As far as going from here I'm assuming continue to try and work on technique, perhaps also posting some videos for some advice. Beyond that, anything wrong with the idea of just continuing easy stuff at a low HR (55-60% of HRmax) along with the occasional day of more moderate effort at say...75-80% of HRmax.

In my head I'm thinking to keep these at a pretty low spm, 18-20 perhaps, to continue to develop power and strength in the non leg muscles, as that right now is a clear limiter; while also building up my technique and general erging engine. Not sure what the eventual goal is, but in my head I'm thinking building up to a month or two where I'm averaging 15 km/day, and then from there think about moving into the more specific 2k preparation. Maybe the occasional test at some random distances for the hell of it. Sensible? Crazy?

One other question, I know both running and cycling have the idea of longer runs/rides for the purposes of fatiguing the muscle fibers and recruiting intermediate fibers to work aerobically. Is that a "thing" in the rowing world, or is there an argument against having a weekly erg session that goes 2+ hours at easy intensities?

[Dangerscouse]

As far as going from here I'm assuming continue to try and work on technique, perhaps also posting some videos for some advice. Beyond that, anything wrong with the idea of just continuing easy stuff at a low HR (55-60% of HRmax) along with the occasional day of more moderate effort at say...75-80% of HRmax.

In my head I'm thinking to keep these at a pretty low spm, 18-20 perhaps, to continue to develop power and strength in the non leg muscles, as that right now is a clear limiter; while also building up my technique and general erging engine. Not sure what the eventual goal is, but in my head I'm thinking building up to a month or two where I'm averaging 15 km/day, and then from there think about moving into the more specific 2k preparation. Maybe the occasional test at some random distances for the hell of it. Sensible? Crazy?

One other question, I know both running and cycling have the idea of longer runs/rides for the purposes of fatiguing the muscle fibers and recruiting intermediate fibers to work aerobically. Is that a "thing" in the rowing world, or is there an argument against having a weekly erg session that goes 2+ hours at easy intensities?

That broadly sounds sensible to me. I'd maybe get your HR zone to circa 65-70% at least for one easy session just because 55-60% will feel really easy and it doesn't sound like you need to go that slow to build up your fitness and it maybe be detrimental for when you need to ratchet up the pressure. If you can still maximise the harder sessions when doing your slow stuff at 55-60% then there's no issue to do it that way.

As you're not very tall 20-22 maybe be better for the stroke rate, and make sure you do a variety of intervals (like you're doing now), some long steady sessions (at least 40 mins if possible, and ideally longer) and some medium paced sessions (e.g 10k at 80-85%) and maybe also using a medium stroke rate (24-26).

A two + hour session is a good idea if you're capable of doing it without compromising your technique and it not fatiguing you too much.

I find a good variety of intensity, pace, stroke rate and distance is what you need to make sure you don't get too used to one specific part of training, and when you find yourself subtly avoiding something, that's the time for you to look at focussing on it.

[LMaster]

One of those "guaranteed PB" days. First time doing anything over 500m, just feeling it out. Could rate faster, but wanted to keep it capped low and work on power.

Started off just under 2:00, but after a few minutes of that HR was still under 130bpm so I kicked it down a few splits. Settled into a comfortable rhythm until 2k, where I tried to pull a little harder. Was going to go for a vicious finish the last 1k, as my HR was still well under 90% of max at that point....but alas my muscles in back/shoulder/hips were tiring from the lower rate and I could only drop the split to like 1:51-1:52 instead of like....low 1:40s.

Think there is tons of improvement here, especially not rate limited, given that I only averaged about 80% of HRmax for the piece. When I was on 1:55 toward the end felt like a pace I could hold (aerobically anyway) for an hour or so.



I'd like to think 1:50 is possible since this was not close to all out...but 5+ splits is a big difference.

[hjs]

Free rate should be 28/30 for you, so lotssssss faster. You seen to be pretty fit already and can expect rapid gains.

[Dangerscouse]

Yeah, I agree with Henry. R28/30 will see you getting a lot faster with your aerobic fitness

[hjs]

Yeah, I agree with Henry. R28/30 will see you getting a lot faster with your aerobic fitness

Not saying anything was wrong with that piece. But given your height and fitness rating up. When you should do a serious test should be key for you. Trainingwise lower rate is fine ofcourse.

[LMaster]

Yeah, I agree with Henry. R28/30 will see you getting a lot faster with your aerobic fitness

Not saying anything was wrong with that piece. But given your height and fitness rating up. When you should do a serious test should be key for you. Trainingwise lower rate is fine ofcourse.

Makes sense given the fatigue that sets in with the lower rate. Its definitely been a focus though because at first I would fatigue even pushing 15 or 20' at 2:15 r18. Now obviously even this is within my capability.

Good to know a 5k can go as high as 30. Was picturing in my head 25-27 for a "real" attempt.

Long way to go but in the back of my head I'm dreaming of 6:40 as that would take the lightweight record at both CSU/CU where I am. I suspect 6:30 (in CO anyway) is probably out of reach, but iirc that's creeping down to what I have seen as qualifying standards for stuff like CRASH-B (altitude adjusted)

[Dangerscouse]

Yeah, I agree with Henry. R28/30 will see you getting a lot faster with your aerobic fitness

Not saying anything was wrong with that piece. But given your height and fitness rating up. When you should do a serious test should be key for you. Trainingwise lower rate is fine ofcourse.

Makes sense given the fatigue that sets in with the lower rate. Its definitely been a focus though because at first I would fatigue even pushing 15 or 20' at 2:15 r18. Now obviously even this is within my capability.

Good to know a 5k can go as high as 30. Was picturing in my head 25-27 for a "real" attempt.

Long way to go but in the back of my head I'm dreaming of 6:40 as that would take the lightweight record at both CSU/CU where I am. I suspect 6:30 (in CO anyway) is probably out of reach, but iirc that's creeping down to what I have seen as qualifying standards for stuff like CRASH-B (altitude adjusted)

For anything under HM I will rate at 28-30 for any TT session. R18/19 is always a tough one if you're pushing your current limits

[LMaster]

Not saying anything was wrong with that piece. But given your height and fitness rating up. When you should do a serious test should be key for you. Trainingwise lower rate is fine ofcourse.

Makes sense given the fatigue that sets in with the lower rate. Its definitely been a focus though because at first I would fatigue even pushing 15 or 20' at 2:15 r18. Now obviously even this is within my capability.

Good to know a 5k can go as high as 30. Was picturing in my head 25-27 for a "real" attempt.

Long way to go but in the back of my head I'm dreaming of 6:40 as that would take the lightweight record at both CSU/CU where I am. I suspect 6:30 (in CO anyway) is probably out of reach, but iirc that's creeping down to what I have seen as qualifying standards for stuff like CRASH-B (altitude adjusted)

For anything under HM I will rate at 28-30 for any TT session. R18/19 is always a tough one if you're pushing your current limits

Yea. Definitely get some fatigue in there for sure! Good to know about the rating for a more open rate piece.