What 2km pace shall I attempt, given...

[Gabe_G]

in Paris was exceptional in that they scheduled the 500m for the evening of the night before the 2k. FWIW I then did a SB 2k at home 3 days after I got two Silver in Paris.

Wow, impressive. After you claimed your 2 silvers in Paris, what did your training look like for the next week? I would imagine you had been in a overreached state at the end and would need to take it quite a bit easier for the next week?

[lindsayh]

Threads like these scare me from even trying an all out 2K. I can almost feel the lactic acid build-up when I watch the world championships. What is the recovery time, on average, for an all out 2k? I think I would be wrecked for about a week. I am also curious how the 2K went for the OP.

Don't put too many barriers in front of you - a 2k is just another piece. Hard of course but recovery is no worse than any hard hit out. In this part of the world it is not unusual to have a race day with up to five events on the day. I (and others too) did 5 events a month ago at NZ Masters in 3 or 4 hours at maximum (and pretty competitive). Done it many times with the 2k usually first and then others following - my fastest ever 2ks have often been followed by other pieces on the same day. Just try to do a "recovery piece" the next day and then back into it.

[WhatHeyHuh]

Well, OP, how did it go?

First Attempt Results:
I considered the good advice kindly offered on this thread. Thanks everyone! Then I discarded all of it in favor of the devil-may-care madness suggested by harrythehamster. It turns out that 1:38.8 was as bad an idea as you might imagine.

What's a credible protocol for warming up to do a 2km?

[Ombrax]

What's a credible protocol for warming up to do a 2km?

Based on how you did the first 2k attempt, I'm guessing you probably won't use the method described in Post #5 of this thread;

viewtopic.php?t=5373

So maybe the procedure described here will be more to your liking:

https://darkhorserowing.com/how-to-mast ... on-the-erg

[lindsayh]

What's a credible protocol for warming up to do a 2km?

both the links are valuable - the Darkhorse and the forum one
The Forum one gives links to 2 standard and highly regarded plans - the Fletcher is gold standard and used a lot and Mike Caviston is one of the greats.
In general allow about 20 minutes of warm up - start slow and include some strong bursts, vary stroke rates. Then wait 5-10 minutes but no longer.
There is good material about pacing strategies too - heading off too fast is a recipe for failure as you have now learned.

[hjs]

Well, OP, how did it go?

First Attempt Results:
I considered the good advice kindly offered on this thread. Thanks everyone! Then I discarded all of it in favor of the devil-may-care madness suggested by harrythehamster. It turns out that 1:38.8 was as bad an idea as you might imagine.

What's a credible protocol for warming up to do a 2km?

So now you still now nothing its not really difficult to just start one en finish the damn thing.

Warm up, for you, does hardly matter, just row 5/10 min. Do a few increesingly faster short sprints, wait 3/4 minutes and just do one. And do not stop before you see zero on the pm. And make sure you are tired at the finish.

[WhatHeyHuh]

What's a credible protocol for warming up to do a 2km?

both the links are valuable - the Darkhorse and the forum one
The Forum one gives links to 2 standard and highly regarded plans - the Fletcher is gold standard and used a lot and Mike Caviston is one of the greats.
In general allow about 20 minutes of warm up - start slow and include some strong bursts, vary stroke rates. Then wait 5-10 minutes but no longer.
There is good material about pacing strategies too - heading off too fast is a recipe for failure as you have now learned.

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations. For the warmup, I went with the Dark Horse Rowing warmup.

In the 0-500M step the warmup says to build over 15 strokes to 15 seconds below target pace. I find it hard to build that slowly so I hit that number and immediately went to the next step: doing the remainder of the 500 at goal minus 4 seconds. That choice during the first 500 blew all possibility of holding an average of 1:45 for the piece. Results:
________________________________
000-500: 1:46.5 @ 29 S/M; HR:162
500-1000: 1:47.6 @ 29 S/M; HR:167
1000-1500: 1:46.8 @ 30 S/M; HR:170
1500-2000: 1:44.3 @ 31 S/M; HR:163
A personal record by a country mile and a decade: 7:05.2; 1:46.3; 29 S/M; HR: 165

[ampire]

What's a credible protocol for warming up to do a 2km?

both the links are valuable - the Darkhorse and the forum one
The Forum one gives links to 2 standard and highly regarded plans - the Fletcher is gold standard and used a lot and Mike Caviston is one of the greats.
In general allow about 20 minutes of warm up - start slow and include some strong bursts, vary stroke rates. Then wait 5-10 minutes but no longer.
There is good material about pacing strategies too - heading off too fast is a recipe for failure as you have now learned.

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations. For the warmup, I went with the Dark Horse Rowing warmup.

In the 0-500M step the warmup says to build over 15 strokes to 15 seconds below target pace. I find it hard to build that slowly so I hit that number and immediately went to the next step: doing the remainder of the 500 at goal minus 4 seconds. That choice during the first 500 blew all possibility of holding an average of 1:45 for the piece. Results:
________________________________
000-500: 1:46.5 @ 29 S/M; HR:162
500-1000: 1:47.6 @ 29 S/M; HR:167
1000-1500: 1:46.8 @ 30 S/M; HR:170
1500-2000: 1:44.3 @ 31 S/M; HR:163
A personal record by a country mile and a decade: 7:05.2; 1:46.3; 29 S/M; HR: 165

7:05 for your first one is a nice job! What are your stats: age, height, weight? Do you think you were near MHR? If you rate a bit higher, say R32, you might get sub 7 on the next one.

[WhatHeyHuh]

both the links are valuable - the Darkhorse and the forum one
The Forum one gives links to 2 standard and highly regarded plans - the Fletcher is gold standard and used a lot and Mike Caviston is one of the greats.
In general allow about 20 minutes of warm up - start slow and include some strong bursts, vary stroke rates. Then wait 5-10 minutes but no longer.
There is good material about pacing strategies too - heading off too fast is a recipe for failure as you have now learned.

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations. For the warmup, I went with the Dark Horse Rowing warmup.

In the 0-500M step the warmup says to build over 15 strokes to 15 seconds below target pace. I find it hard to build that slowly so I hit that number and immediately went to the next step: doing the remainder of the 500 at goal minus 4 seconds. That choice during the first 500 blew all possibility of holding an average of 1:45 for the piece. Results:
________________________________
000-500: 1:46.5 @ 29 S/M; HR:162
500-1000: 1:47.6 @ 29 S/M; HR:167
1000-1500: 1:46.8 @ 30 S/M; HR:170
1500-2000: 1:44.3 @ 31 S/M; HR:163
A personal record by a country mile and a decade: 7:05.2; 1:46.3; 29 S/M; HR: 165

7:05 for your first one is a nice job! What are your stats: age, height, weight? Do you think you were near MHR? If you rate a bit higher, say R32, you might get sub 7 on the next one.

Thank you! I am really enjoying getting into this... which is good because I must lose some weight, as you'll see:
age: 55
height: 6'-1" (183 cm)

Body composition (based upon a Lunar iDXA scan I had yesterday):
weight: 252 lbs (114kg)
lean mass: 157.7 lbs (71.513kg)
fat mass: 84.5 lbs (38.350kg)
BMI: 34.1 (kg/m^2)
Summary: we can say within 1% accuracy: I am fat! That's okay because tomorrow I begin a 12-week plant-based diet study. Between that and the rowing I hope to drop some weight.

Regarding MHR, I don't know how close I was to MHR. In a well-executed 2K, should one be at MHR the whole time? Do you know of any protocols for determining one's no-kidding MHR?
My lifetime highest I ever saw was 187, but that was 25+ years ago. Ten years ago I averaged 171 for 62 minutes. Four years ago, I averaged 157 BPM for 77 minutes. I doubt one can accurately extrapolate from that data to a real MHR.

[ampire]

You are off to a good start with that as your first proper 2K.

You probably wouldn't hit MHR on a 2K, but you might get close to it if its done hard enough. 2K isn't long enough in duration probably. However, I was only asking because if you did have previous knowledge of your MHR, you could say whether you had a bit more to give.

The way MHR is typically found would be a step test https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2016/1 ... heart-rate, but its rather intense.

I found my highest observed MHR doing a 5K time trial, 192.

[lindsayh]

Regarding MHR, I don't know how close I was to MHR. In a well-executed 2K, should one be at MHR the whole time? Do you know of any protocols for determining one's no-kidding MHR? My lifetime highest I ever saw was 187, but that was 25+ years ago. Ten years ago I averaged 171 for 62 minutes. Four years ago, I averaged 157 BPM for 77 minutes. I doubt one can accurately extrapolate from that data to a real MHR.

If you are fit then the 2k won't be long enough to get to MHR - typically 5k to 30' really hard is needed and that is a fairly reliable way to do it.
The "gold standard" done in elite sports exercise physiology is to do a VO2max test which is based on 6 or 7x 4'/1'R stepped down with each harder that the one before and lactates done at the end off each 4'. The last one is flat out to failure and you will get very close to the MHR number. It probably doesn't matter whether you are a couple out. Your MHR will decline with age but not with fitness - your resting HR drops as you get fitter. Average HR doesn't really make a lot of difference. There are no formulae that are accurate enough to help you.
Heart rates are still only a proxy for what is happening to lactic acid but training zones can be relatively reliable based on heart rate reserve.(MHR-RHR)

[lindsayh]

Regarding MHR, I don't know how close I was to MHR. In a well-executed 2K, should one be at MHR the whole time? Do you know of any protocols for determining one's no-kidding MHR? My lifetime highest I ever saw was 187, but that was 25+ years ago. Ten years ago I averaged 171 for 62 minutes. Four years ago, I averaged 157 BPM for 77 minutes. I doubt one can accurately extrapolate from that data to a real MHR.

That is a very good 2k for a start - nice work - there is always newbie gains for a while too so sub7 is close.

If you are fit then the 2k won't be long enough to get to MHR - typically 5k to 30' really hard is needed and that is a fairly reliable way to do it.
The "gold standard" done in elite sports exercise physiology is to do a VO2max test which is based on 6 or 7x 4'/1'R stepped down with each harder that the one before and lactates done at the end off each 4'. The last one is flat out to failure and you will get very close to the MHR number. It probably doesn't matter whether you are a couple out. Your MHR will decline with age but not with fitness - your resting HR drops as you get fitter. Average HR doesn't really make a lot of difference. There are no formulae that are accurate enough to help you.
Heart rates are still only a proxy for what is happening to lactic acid but training zones can be relatively reliable based on heart rate reserve.(MHR-RHR)

[OregonERG]

Good job with a 7:05 on your first one... sub-7 is tough no matter what you can do in the shorter or, in my case, longer distances. 2000m is 2000m. Other distances help prepare you for the 2km but there is no substitute for that kind of pace, pain, & distance rolled into one.

Which leads me to my question. And since I don't want to start a new thread, I hope I can ask it here. Given my new PBs in the 5000 (18:13) and 10000 (37:12) what pace do you guys think I should attempt for my 2km? I mean, I can row 1:49.x pace for 5000m, so sub-7 might be in reach, right? Why is it so hard? My three attempts in 2020 were 7:04, 7:08, and 7:09. Am I ready for a sub-7 or not? (I did row 6:59 back in 2017 and 2018 but took 2019 off rowing just to run.)

p.s. I am 47, 72kg, 183cm

[hjs]

Good job with a 7:05 on your first one... sub-7 is tough no matter what you can do in the shorter or, in my case, longer distances. 2000m is 2000m. Other distances help prepare you for the 2km but there is no substitute for that kind of pace, pain, & distance rolled into one.

Which leads me to my question. And since I don't want to start a new thread, I hope I can ask it here. Given my new PBs in the 5000 (18:13) and 10000 (37:12) what pace do you guys think I should attempt for my 2km? I mean, I can row 1:49.x pace for 5000m, so sub-7 might be in reach, right? Why is it so hard? My three attempts in 2020 were 7:04, 7:08, and 7:09. Am I ready for a sub-7 or not? (I did row 6:59 back in 2017 and 2018 but took 2019 off rowing just to run.)

p.s. I am 47, 72kg, 183cm

5k is toughly 5/7 seconds above 2k pace. So sub7 should be “easy”. Have you done some speed work? What are your 500 and 1k times. It could be that you are a very aerobic type of guy. Long distances would be your strenght and pure speed would simply not be there.
For 7 min 2k, your 1k should be 3.18 ish and your 500 maybe 132 or better.

[OregonERG]

Sorry, I didn't row much the last year (gym was closed due to covid-19) and I just saw your message.
My 1km times are terrible. I can't really row faster than 1:45 pace, so even at 500m and 1000m, I tend to be close to my 2km pace. The hilarious/stupid thing is that I can row 1:49 pace for 5km. I just don't have the strength to move the boat! I am already rowing at 31-33 spm and the damper is down on 4.5, so I don't know what else I can do. Oof.