Running to race pace conversion

[hjs]

For Kipchoge, estimated wattage to accomplish his pace is estimated at 350 watts for his marathon and 380 watts for a 10K. Rowing is mostly legs. Its not like you are challenging him to a 500M. You said 25 minutes for a 5KM. That is easy for any trained athlete to accomplish, just 100 watts required.

1500 m 3:33.20 31 May 2004 Hengelo, Netherlands FBK Games
Mile run 3:50.40 30 July 2004 London, United Kingdom London Grand Prix
3000 m 7:27.66 6 May 2011 Doha, Qatar Qatar Athletic Super Grand Prix
Two miles 8:07.68 4 June 2005 Eugene, United States Prefontaine Classic
5000 m 12:46.53 2 July 2004 Rome, Italy Golden Gala
10,000 m 26:49.02 26 May 2007 Hengelo, Netherlands FBK Games
10 km (road race) 28:11 27 September 2009 Utrecht, Netherlands Utrechtse Singelloop
10 km (road race)[a] 26:54 31 December 2006 Madrid, Spain San Silvestre Vallecana
Half marathon 59:25 1 September 2012 Lille, France Lille Half Marathon
30K run 1:27:13 24 April 2016 London, United Kingdom London Marathon
Marathon 2:01:39 WR 16 September 2018 Berlin, Germany Berlin Marathon
1:59:40 12 October 2019 Vienna, Austria Ineos 1:59 Challenge

Re rowing is mostly legs, thats really far the truth, all power goes through the arms and back, you need the power to be able to handle that.

If Kip. tried rowing he would be poor, with zero muscle in his arms and his back not trained to pull. But ofcourse that would rapidly pick up. His body would become complete different.

He is 167 and 52kg. Thats roughly half of a rower, formidable runner, but a tiny frame. A good cox

[ampire]

Graphs are often easier to read than numbers. So I plotted the above records (most are not current WRs).

If 5K in 25 min (= 3.33 m/sec) requires just 100W, then it is hard to believe that for running wattage does increase linear with speed, as 6.66 m/sec would imply 200W.
Overcoming air resistance, which is proportional to speed³, will be a substantial part of the running effort.
The frequent use of pacemakers in record races demonstrates the beneficial effect of what in cycling is called 'drafting', i.e. reducing air resistance.
The Vienna Ineos marathon record was established by using rotating specialized pacers, set in an array to provide maximum air shielding. It is not an IAAF record, but a Guinness World Record.

To clarify, rowing a 5K in 25 mins on a concept 2 ergometer is just 103 watt, see the pace to watts calculator. The pace is 2:30 which translates to 103 watts. His body is capable of sustaining 350-400 watts for 2 hours. 100 watts for 25 minutes should be easy for him even if his arms and back contribute little.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... calculator

[hjs]

Graphs are often easier to read than numbers. So I plotted the above records (most are not current WRs).

If 5K in 25 min (= 3.33 m/sec) requires just 100W, then it is hard to believe that for running wattage does increase linear with speed, as 6.66 m/sec would imply 200W.
Overcoming air resistance, which is proportional to speed³, will be a substantial part of the running effort.
The frequent use of pacemakers in record races demonstrates the beneficial effect of what in cycling is called 'drafting', i.e. reducing air resistance.
The Vienna Ineos marathon record was established by using rotating specialized pacers, set in an array to provide maximum air shielding. It is not an IAAF record, but a Guinness World Record.

To clarify, rowing a 5K in 25 mins on a concept 2 ergometer is just 103 watt, see the pace to watts calculator. The pace is 2:30 which translates to 103 watts. His body is capable of sustaining 350-400 watts for 2 hours. 100 watts for 25 minutes should be easy for him even if his arms and back contribute little.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... calculator

25 min is indeed super slow. Ofcourse he could. His legs and lungs can bring those watts, but I very much doubt those numbers are correct.
400 watt is 1.35 pace on the rower.
The wr marathon is 1.42 pace, this was set by a guy close to 100kg. So that 400 watt is way more than a guy close to double him can bring. And that was a top athlete.
I very much doubt kip. can pull 1 stroke at 1.35 pace.

[Nomath]

To clarify, rowing a 5K in 25 mins on a concept 2 ergometer is just 103 watt, see the pace to watts calculator.
...

Sorry I misunderstood your remark. I thought it applied to running 5K.

Still I do not believe that the power for running is linearly related to speed. The power to deal with air resistance (or any other hydrodynamic resistance) is proportional to speed^3. Air resistance is also important for runners, although not as important as for cyclists and ice speed skaters, who have a much higher speed and a stable centre of gravity, unlike runners. Pacemakers are an effective way to reduce the air resistance for runners because they create a slipstream.

[ampire]

Graphs are often easier to read than numbers. So I plotted the above records (most are not current WRs).

If 5K in 25 min (= 3.33 m/sec) requires just 100W, then it is hard to believe that for running wattage does increase linear with speed, as 6.66 m/sec would imply 200W.
Overcoming air resistance, which is proportional to speed³, will be a substantial part of the running effort.
The frequent use of pacemakers in record races demonstrates the beneficial effect of what in cycling is called 'drafting', i.e. reducing air resistance.
The Vienna Ineos marathon record was established by using rotating specialized pacers, set in an array to provide maximum air shielding. It is not an IAAF record, but a Guinness World Record.

To clarify, rowing a 5K in 25 mins on a concept 2 ergometer is just 103 watt, see the pace to watts calculator. The pace is 2:30 which translates to 103 watts. His body is capable of sustaining 350-400 watts for 2 hours. 100 watts for 25 minutes should be easy for him even if his arms and back contribute little.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... calculator

25 min is indeed super slow. Ofcourse he could. His legs and lungs can bring those watts, but I very much doubt those numbers are correct.
400 watt is 1.35 pace on the rower.
The wr marathon is 1.42 pace, this was set by a guy close to 100kg. So that 400 watt is way more than a guy close to double him can bring. And that was a top athlete.
I very much doubt kip. can pull 1 stroke at 1.35 pace.

I agree. I think he could row a 5K, 25 min at 2:30 pace. I'm not arguing he could produce that 400w on a rowing ergometer, but saying that his heart and lungs and legs are adapted enough, as evidenced by his running performance, that 25 mins at 2:30 pace on a rowing machine would be easy for him. The link I posted gave predictions of the steep physiological requirements for running a 2 hour marathon. http://www.georgeron.com/2017/09/kipcho ... n.html?m=1

From first order mathematical relations, I estimate that absolute external power Kipchoge used to run the Berlin Marathon in 2:03:32 is in the range 350-420 Watts. The mechanical power was established using three methods and several assumptions. The Riegel power prediction is the most conservative. The latter two methods predict numbers on the high side.

[hjs]

No doubt Kipchouge is a very special speciman. That sub 2 marathon, lets not talk about it. That had little to do with real running not mentioning the shoes.

But to put it simple, lets say He would be 90kg and for the rest 100% the same, not 167 but 190 plus. Thats 73% more, his 400 output would go to close to 700. That would be more than double of what rowers do on the erg. That can,t be right. Somewhere the calculations go wrong.

[frenchtouch]

I am a runner and I am 59.
I row now because of an Achilles Tendinopathy.
With no real preparation (only rowed 5 times the last 2 weeks and maybe 3 times before the summer), I row a 10K in 45 mn.
With a lot of endurance training but no tracks, I run a 10K in 49 mn.
But the truth is I love rowing too.