New rower - What to do?

[jamesg]

Your feet are high, which stops you coming forward to pull full length, reducing the amount of work in the stroke. This leads to high ratings; which may be acceptable initially, but not as you get fitter and want to work harder, since it limits efficiency and power.

The catch posture enabled by low feet is with vertical shins, or even an inch or so further forward. This lengthens your stroke by about 20cm.

You can easily check what you are doing and the effects of any technique adjustment: Watts/Rating is the work in each stroke. The actual amount of work per stroke will depend on your height.

[Kris7900]

Thank you Allan.

Thanks James. What do you mean by “your feet are high?” I simply have my feet strapped in so the strap covers the part of my foot Concept 2 advises it to cover. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the comment!

[Citroen]

Thank you Allan.

Thanks James. What do you mean by “your feet are high?” I simply have my feet strapped in so the strap covers the part of my foot Concept 2 advises it to cover. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the comment!

Your foot stretchers are about two holes too high. The rule of thumb is: heel bone level with the erg monorail and the strap goes over the natural bend in your shoe.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks again, here is another video from this evening. It feels like I'm driving very hard with my legs but also makes me feel like i'm flying backwards too fast where my knees almost lock very quickly. My force curve was a very aggressive double diamond, so unsure how to smooth that out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=709LfinplH8

To me it looks like you're 'shooting the slide' a little bit i.e. your bottom is pushing out too far before you engage your arms and back to pull. I guess this will produce a double diamond curve as it's a slightly disjointed sequence.

Try and pull a little bit more when you push with the legs. With practice it becomes second nature.

60% of the power is through the legs but you need to knit all of the sources of power together seamlessly, so they all engage at different levels but more or less at the same time and there is a smooth transition from legs, to arms to back.

[G-dub]

The sequence you are using is seems fine but maybe what’s missing is the use of the hip opening to extend application of power. On the erg there is less need for holding back angle and hanging on handle. So you can use hips and back opening more explosively, I tend to think.

[mitchel674]

Thanks again, here is another video from this evening. It feels like I'm driving very hard with my legs but also makes me feel like i'm flying backwards too fast where my knees almost lock very quickly. My force curve was a very aggressive double diamond, so unsure how to smooth that out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=709LfinplH8

To me it looks like you're 'shooting the slide' a little bit i.e. your bottom is pushing out too far before you engage your arms and back to pull. I guess this will produce a double diamond curve as it's a slightly disjointed sequence.

Try and pull a little bit more when you push with the legs. With practice it becomes second nature.

60% of the power is through the legs but you need to knit all of the sources of power together seamlessly, so they all engage at different levels but more or less at the same time and there is a smooth transition from legs, to arms to back.

I see this too. Shooting the slide a bit here where your slide goes back an initial bit without any movement of the handle. You should initiate the drive with your legs and keep your core engaged. As the slide goes up the rail, the handle should move in concert. What does your force curve look like?

Are you using Ergdata? I'm wondering what your drive length is at your current technique.

[Anth_F]

Yep shooting the slide!!!!! Obviously this is all new to you, nothing happens instantly. The rowing stroke takes time to master, but once you get properly into the swing it's a great movement.

You look in decent shape, and suited for rowing.

Best of luck, and have fun.

[MuadDale]

One of the toughest things for me to initially grasp was how everything works together in the stroke, legs>hips>arms>arms>hips>legs. It sounds simple enough, but in the absence of any in-person coaching we're just trying to learn from text and videos and I was really having a time with some aspects of it.

A helpful member here broke it down like this:

At stroke rates below 23-24 SPM, you can likely get away with not using straps at all. If you feel light in the feet at the end of the stroke just prior to the recovery, that is if you're using your straps to keep your feet on the erg when your hands are fully back at your torso, you're not pulling hard enough with your arms/hips. You should have a consistent pull throughout and your force curve should look like the St Louis arch, only flatter. If the apex of your curve trends left, your feet will tend to get light. If it trends right, you're likely not using your legs like you should.

Once that was explained to me a light bulb went off and everything came together. I slowed down and stopped using straps for a bit, trained myself to use my stroke to keep my feet on the erg, and everything clicked. I still have to watch for strap pressure on the top of my feet, but now that I know to look for it I can adjust on the fly. At faster rates your straps are necessary, but starting out not using them was an epiphany.

You're going to love your erg, just be careful not to overtrain. I did, had to get off for a couple of months and have just this week started up again.

I did the Beginners Pete Plan, a 24-week program with three mandatory and two optional workouts each week and absolutely loved it. The seasonal challenges from Concept 2 are great as well and are a fun diversion.

[jamesg]

What do you mean by “your feet are high?”

You have the straps over your insteps, not as suggested by C2. This shortens your stroke in various ways, and weakens your catch. The catch is then slow, so you lose further length, giving the impression of shooting the slide since there is a lot of slack to take up before the chain can engage.

Work is Length x Force, so high feet lessens the ability to do work.

Suggest you set your feet as low as possible and come a lot further forward, lifting your heels as necessary, putting your weight on your feet so that you can take a fast hard catch. The suggested catch posture has vertical shins, with the slide about 40cm from your heels.

[Kris7900]

This forum is amazing, thank you! I'll definitely work on changing my foot positioning.

In regards to "shooting the slide" i think this makes sense. Let me ask in this way: I am worried about using my arms too much and pulling too soon, so it seems likely that I am actually using my arms too late, so the seat is moving back and in a way I'm "reaching"? It's really weird to get the sequence correct on this thing, but I am really looking forward to it!

[MuadDale]

Here's the post I referred to above. Hopefully you'll find some value in it.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3&start=22065#p469544

[Dangerscouse]

This forum is amazing, thank you! I'll definitely work on changing my foot positioning.

In regards to "shooting the slide" i think this makes sense. Let me ask in this way: I am worried about using my arms too much and pulling too soon, so it seems likely that I am actually using my arms too late, so the seat is moving back and in a way I'm "reaching"? It's really weird to get the sequence correct on this thing, but I am really looking forward to it!

Don't over think it all, it will suddenly and unconsciously slot into place and yes, you're ending up reaching too much so you leak a bit of power and efficiency.

To make it simpler try and pull equally with your arms and legs at the start and get that feeling ingrained then you can think about whether you're using your legs enough.

I say this all the time, but for a seemingly simple exercise it's surprisingly technical.

[G-dub]

As mentioned, I think your sequence is fine. Yes sometimes you appear to shoot the slide, but for the most part you are using your legs and maintaining back angle until they are down. This is what is taught on the water to novices.

But I also think that you are missing the middle of the stroke which links legs to arms with hip and back opening in a way that maintains the power curve. Think about a power clean - which is the most powerful part? The part where your hips and back explode open. It is also the most powerful part of a throw or anything really. So I think getting that good squeeze of your butt at the end of the leg drive keeps the power application on and uses all of your legs and butt

[Ombrax]

Kris,

I'll reemphasize what Dale suggested above regarding the straps: Unless you're rowing super-hard (i.e. racing-hard) you should be able to row strapless. Try rowing without them for a bit, and if you can't that's a red flag that there's an issue that needs to be addressed. Between rowing strapless and the force curve on the PM you should be able to get pretty close to a good stroke.

[hjs]

Thanks again everyone. Here is a video of me doing it last night. This had me closer to 2:20 (was after my original workout when it felt like i wasn't even breaking a sweat or getting a workout).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAU6x_jwUOc

Be honest, but kind

A lot of great advice. The whole "breaking a sweat" thing is where i would like to start. If I am able to hit that 2:15-2:20 mark, how long should I row for knowing i"m just starting out and looking to get a good cardio workout in?

You are not getting on the balls of your feet, you keep the heals fully down, fix that, get your weight on the balls and start from there.
Second, you “shoot the slide” thats rowing with a weak, unbrached back. When you start the stroke, the handle, your hips and your shoulders should al move at the same speed. Talking about the start if the stroke. You let the shoulders come last.

If you fix those 2 things, your stroke will be longer and have much more force. What you did in this clip really is not good, it could even hurt you.
In short, get up your feet fully and move with a strong, brached back!