Pete Plan Thread

[rascott]

Thanks Henry , appreciated. I woke up this morning with more pain - had to get wife to put sock on my left foot and tie shoelaces!! So I'm going to wait until the pain is gone and I can fully move. How frustrating!

[madmuppet006]

a couple of steady state sessions .. a hunt for a gym with an indoor rower before work and an interval session .. then a hard 6k.

rowed strapless for the first time .. only due to no strap for one foot so said to myself why bother with the other one .. it helped my technique a lot I feel in the sense I wasn't arm pulling too soon and it helped the timinig in my stroke .. arms back legs ..

for the interval it was 4x2k

8:00.3@32 156HR max 2.00.0/500m
7:59.1@32 156HR max 1:59.7/500m
7:59.6@34 159HR max 1:59.9/500m
7:59.4@33 162HR max 1:59.8/500m

the 6k was 24:12.8@30 152HR average going up too 164 2:01.0/500m .. which is almost the same as my 4x2k split .. should I be pushing harder on the 4x2k?

thanks

al.

[Dangerscouse]

a couple of steady state sessions .. a hunt for a gym with an indoor rower before work and an interval session .. then a hard 6k.

rowed strapless for the first time .. only due to no strap for one foot so said to myself why bother with the other one .. it helped my technique a lot I feel in the sense I wasn't arm pulling too soon and it helped the timinig in my stroke .. arms back legs ..

for the interval it was 4x2k

8:00.3@32 156HR max 2.00.0/500m
7:59.1@32 156HR max 1:59.7/500m
7:59.6@34 159HR max 1:59.9/500m
7:59.4@33 162HR max 1:59.8/500m

the 6k was 24:12.8@30 152HR average going up too 164 2:01.0/500m .. which is almost the same as my 4x2k split .. should I be pushing harder on the 4x2k?

thanks

al.

What rest did you have on the 4 x 2k? I roughly think a hard 4 x 2k pace would be 2k + 6/7 with 4 or 5 mins rest, and a hard 6k would be 2k + 8/9

[madmuppet006]

What rest did you have on the 4 x 2k? I roughly think a hard 4 x 2k pace would be 2k + 6/7 with 4 or 5 mins rest, and a hard 6k would be 2k + 8/9

I had a 5 minite active break between the 2ks .. my pb for 2k is 7:31.0 with a 1:52.75/500m so on the 2k+6~7 I'm off by almost 2 seconds in places ..

the 6k is closer .. I pulled a quicker 6k about 5 weeks ago @23:59.0 but I was rowing rubbish miles the fortnite before trying to pull splits to quick on too low a rate ..

looking at 8x500m tomorrow with a pace of 1:52.0

thanks

al.

[max_ratcliffe]

a couple of steady state sessions .. a hunt for a gym with an indoor rower before work and an interval session .. then a hard 6k.

rowed strapless for the first time .. only due to no strap for one foot so said to myself why bother with the other one .. it helped my technique a lot I feel in the sense I wasn't arm pulling too soon and it helped the timinig in my stroke .. arms back legs ..

for the interval it was 4x2k

8:00.3@32 156HR max 2.00.0/500m
7:59.1@32 156HR max 1:59.7/500m
7:59.6@34 159HR max 1:59.9/500m
7:59.4@33 162HR max 1:59.8/500m

the 6k was 24:12.8@30 152HR average going up too 164 2:01.0/500m .. which is almost the same as my 4x2k split .. should I be pushing harder on the 4x2k?

thanks

al.

FWIW, the 6k looks a bit harder than the intervals.
But I don't think it matters. If both the workouts are hard but doable, then they're alright. If you're bleeding from your ears or barely breaking into a sweat, probably not.

Here's Mike Caviston talking about 8x500, but the point remains:

"The correct response is, 8 x 500m is a training tool and you should do it as fast as you can do it (within the proper parameters for that
workout). Don't worry about how it relates to 2K as you go through your training cycle. Just try to gradually improve your ability to perform that workout."

It might be better to try to make them more different. So if you had 6 min recovery, you might be able to work harder in your intervals, and so train different aspects of your physiology.

Caviston again: "My advice in a nutshell is: get adequate recovery, and take a little extra rather than not enough.
Maintain your ability to perform the workout at your planned intensity."

Over to the experts...

[Dangerscouse]

I was rowing rubbish miles the fortnite before trying to pull splits to quick on too low a rate ..

I'm a heretic in this instance. Some of my best improvements have come after doing regular junk metres e.g. 10 miles @ 2k + 15. Not massively junk metres but it 'should' have been + 18/20.

There are definitely exceptions to the rules for different people so don't get too focused on what works for the majority.

I think your pacing is about right for both sessions, but just assess and adjust next time you do it. It is always hard to guess how fast you should be going when you do something like a 4 x 2k with not much base data to compare against.

[madmuppet006]

very happy with my results today .. taking

It might be better to try to make them more different. So if you had 6 min recovery, you might be able to work harder in your intervals, and so train different aspects of your physiology.

Caviston again: "My advice in a nutshell is: get adequate recovery, and take a little extra rather than not enough.
Maintain your ability to perform the workout at your planned intensity."

Over to the experts...

into account I tried 8x500m with 5 minites rest

results were

1:52.1@33
1:52.0@33
1:50.5@34
1:50.2@34
1:50.2@35
1:50.1@35
1:49.9@35 and
1:47.6@36

which is a much better result than last time which was 1:52ish average.

heart rate built from mid 140's on the first 500m up to 158 on the 7th and 160 on the 8th interval .. in between on active rest it went down to 100 ~ 110

I'm happy knowing I have some improvement left in me even though I had long breaks .. be a relaxed row tomorrow for sure ..

thanks for all the help and tips so far definitely getting quicker even if slowly ..

al.

[JayBroek34]

On cycle 3 of Pete Plan:
4 x 1,500m: 1:55.1 @ 23 spm
1:55:9 @ 23 spm
1:55:4 @ 23 spm
1:54:8 @ 23 spm
1:54:2 @ 25 spm

Had to skip last (5th) piece to ensure I wasn't late for work! Am pleased with - improvement from 1:57.2 in the last cycle. 4th piece was a push as I experimented with a high stroke rate than I'm used to.

[madmuppet006]

On cycle 3 of Pete Plan:
4 x 1,500m: 1:55.1 @ 23 spm
1:55:9 @ 23 spm
1:55:4 @ 23 spm
1:54:8 @ 23 spm
1:54:2 @ 25 spm

wish I had that much low down power ..

I went for 4x1k on thursday .. still felt beat up by the 8x500m on tuesday so my average was better than last time by 0.1s over the entire 4k

1:52.0@35
1:52.3@34
1:52.1@35
1:52.0@36

heart rate was up around 167 HR during the intervals .. came down to 110ish inside 1:30 so not sure if thats good or bad

had a 12hr shift at work on friday so did my recovery row yesterday instead of a hard medium distance .. still deciding between a ss session or the hard distance for today

thanks

al

[JayBroek34]

On cycle 3 of Pete Plan:
4 x 1,500m: 1:55.1 @ 23 spm
1:55:9 @ 23 spm
1:55:4 @ 23 spm
1:54:8 @ 23 spm
1:54:2 @ 25 spm

wish I had that much low down power ..

I went for 4x1k on thursday .. still felt beat up by the 8x500m on tuesday so my average was better than last time by 0.1s over the entire 4k

1:52.0@35
1:52.3@34
1:52.1@35
1:52.0@36

heart rate was up around 167 HR during the intervals .. came down to 110ish inside 1:30 so not sure if thats good or bad

had a 12hr shift at work on friday so did my recovery row yesterday instead of a hard medium distance .. still deciding between a ss session or the hard distance for today

thanks

al

And I'm inspired by your high stroke rate! My HR gets massively out of whack when I do 24+ spm rates. Need to build up my fitness here

[JayBroek34]

Speed Pyramid at 1:45.1 @ 29 spm with the below:

250m: 1:45.0 @ 29
500m: 1:44.3 @ 28
750m: 1:45.0 @ 28
1000m: 1:46.4 @ 27
750m: 1:45.2 @ 28
500m: 1:45.9 @ 29
250m: 1:39.8 @ 34

Beat my old PB of 1:46.7, going in the right direction. Building up higher stroke rate fitness - clearly dipped in the middle.

[jackarabit]

very happy with my results today .. taking

It might be better to try to make them more different. So if you had 6 min recovery, you might be able to work harder in your intervals, and so train different aspects of your physiology.

Caviston again: "My advice in a nutshell is: get adequate recovery, and take a little extra rather than not enough.
Maintain your ability to perform the workout at your planned intensity."

Over to the experts...

into account I tried 8x500m with 5 minites rest

results were

1:52.1@33
1:52.0@33
1:50.5@34
1:50.2@34
1:50.2@35
1:50.1@35
1:49.9@35 and
1:47.6@36

which is a much better result than last time which was 1:52ish average.

heart rate built from mid 140's on the first 500m up to 158 on the 7th and 160 on the 8th interval .. in between on active rest it went down to 100 ~ 110

I'm happy knowing I have some improvement left in me even though I had long breaks .. be a relaxed row tomorrow for sure ..

thanks for all the help and tips so far definitely getting quicker even if slowly ..

al.

No expert am I but I have read the Wolverine Plan and the later accretion of discussion and commentary on this forum known as the Wolverine Plan Remarks. You may want to get the full nut on Max’s excerpted Caviston quotation from MC’s “Comments on L1: Recovery Between Pieces” b4 getting too cozy with long interval rests:

“RECOVERY BETWEEN PIECES. This is another topic that in my opinion gets more discussion than it deserves. My advice in a nutshell is: get adequate recovery, and take a little extra rather than not enough. Maintain your ability to perform the workout at your planned intensity. Perform active rather than passive recovery to more completely facilitate the process. Some people imagine that by shortening the recovery interval you will benefit by more completely mimicking race conditions when you will be tired. My answer is, this isn't racing, it's training. The goal is to improve your ability to race well, not to practice crashing and burning in agony. The logical extension of that line of thinking would be to train while dehydrated, glycogen-depleted, sleep-deprived, hung over, in a hot humid environment with low oxygen levels and with "Dancing Queen" blaring at full blast in both ears. Hell, if you survived that, a simple 2K would be a breeze, right? But in reality, allowing more complete recovery allows the proper intensity to maximize the training stimulus and produce maximum adaptation to the workout. Still, make sure that recovery intervals are practical and not too excessive. I suggest a round number of allowing 5' per 500m. That means do a 500m piece, recover (some passive, mostly active) until 5' have elapsed since the start of the first piece, then start the next.”


I understand the final sentences as recommending 5’ total time devoted to each successive iteration of active and rest period combined as applied to the 8x500. Let's say your target is 1:47 av. and you go off at 1:50. That suggests or means to me 3’10” rest after the first. Makes the prescribed 3:30 rest in PP look good, does it not? I think Marston took his Caviston literally, subtracted his own workaday 1:30 pace from 5, and got 3:30. Hard prescriptions are like ill-fitting hats. In the case of 8x500, the relativistic “fit it all in 5” is a less solipsistic choice.

High quality interval execution (consistent pacing thruout each interval and consistent pace progression between each succeeding) is preferable to a mindless thrash, particularly on final approach to competition or test. 80-90% recovery facilitates quality reps. But Caviston ALSO says NOT to ratchet up rest period duration to the onset of cooldown or with the intention of eking out a bit more improvement on average pace.

In the first stages of training, working under the influence of severe metabolic disruption serves the purpose of destroying to rebuild. Imo, the 3:10 rest (Caviston’s “suggested” rest period formula applied to you) or the more liberal 3:30 (Marston’s determination in his own case??) is adequate recovery time for early days. Going again @ 60-80% recovery is purposeful misery.

[hjs]

Jack, the fixed time slot is very much used around group sessions. Everybody starts every rep at the same time.

5 min rest after 500m is fine, but way to long to mimic 2k fatique.

[jackarabit]

Henry, wrangling one team among several teams of Wolverine rowers in and out of a busy collegiate boathouse or gym with a limited number of machines very likely necessitated the use of time “centers” for interval starts.

The “Remarks” were made on an internet forum to a self selected collection of fitness seekers and walkon dilettantes with no shared constraints on scheduling access to equipment. Odd that MC lays into the no pain no gain school with all the hyperbolic imagery at his disposal but never really sez: Hey, take five, six, whatever keeps your socks up.

Metabolic stress is partially alleviated by interval rest. Cellular damage and session fatigue is corrected by rest days, not by rest minutes.

[hjs]

Henry, wrangling one team among several teams of Wolverine rowers in and out of a busy collegiate boathouse or gym with a limited number of machines very likely necessitated the use of time “centers” for interval starts.

The “Remarks” were made on an internet forum to a self selected collection of fitness seekers and walkon dilettantes with no shared constraints on scheduling access to equipment. Odd that MC lays into the no pain no gain school with all the hyperbolic imagery at his disposal but never really sez: Hey, take five, six, whatever keeps your socks up.

Metabolic stress is partially alleviated by interval rest. Cellular damage and session fatigue is corrected by rest days, not by rest minutes.

In general I see Otw aimed rowers often take longer rests. Seen guys do 5x1k with 10 min rest. Sessions become very long that way, certainly including long wu and cd s. Having more time can also be a factor.

Also otw, often has technique sessions, with lots of breaks inbetween, also not having long stretches of water is common, so turns etc give you forced rest, so its more natural?