Increasing stroke rate / aerobic capacity

[Dangerscouse]

It possibly is too fast. As Henry always, correctly, says, most of us don't go fast enough on fast sessions or slow enough on slow sessions.

There's a natural tendency for these and I always find r24-26 is all too suited to this middle ground, but you maybe different. If you know your 2k pace, aim for slow to be 2k +25ish and fast to be 2k - 3ish in very rough guidance. This may give you more results if you're not currently working at these paces, but unfortunately Father Time will be playing a part too.

[johnlvs2run]

Would I potentially benefit from substituting some running for erg time? Thanks,

Yes, absolutely. Exercising and being on one's feet is extremely important.

[Ollie Russell]

Im finding rating up a real struggle. My 2k PB was done at around 26ish and that felt fast, i seem to prefer 18 to 20 with long powerful strokes. I read this post earlier this week and saw eric murray being mentioned. I looked up his video on youtube about ratings and have tried out his advice the last 3 erg sessions...gotta say, ive found it very enlightening. He describes them as "builders" and advises to think about it as "tapping it along"...15 strokes steadily building the rating to where its comfortable then paddle pressure for a min, rinse and repeat. Today i was very pleased to hold 42r/1:34...the penny dropped when i realised i didnt have to apply the same high force in the drive at every stroke rate...his phrase tap it along really helped me. I wrongly thought short distances were about brute force in the drive, now i understand its better to get as many strokes in as possible. Ive been rowing long distances for the last month to build my aeorobic capacity and this week with the shorter speed work i have noticed a big difference. Im really looking forward to chipping time off my 2k pb now and seeing what i can manage.

[johnlvs2run]

the penny dropped when i realised i didnt have to apply the same high force in the drive at every stroke rate...his phrase tap it along really helped me. I wrongly thought short distances were about brute force in the drive, now i understand its better to get as many strokes in as possible. Ive been rowing long distances for the last month to build my aeorobic capacity and this week with the shorter speed work i have noticed a big difference. Im really looking forward to chipping time off my 2k pb now and seeing what i can manage.

Awesome insight and progress.

[RayOfSunshine]

I did an hour yesterday and focused on keeping the sr > 25. I started out doing 26-27 and got into a decent rhythm.. after 5 minutes or so, I noticed my sr dropping to 25 and at 15 minutes, it was hitting 24. I was reverting back to more powerful strokes. I remembered Henry's mention of strapless and unstrapped. Now, my drive length went way down (as expected), but I was able to hold 26-27 for the rest of the hour... and ended up with 26 avg. Very pleased

if possible even strapless.
Its partly your preferred stroke, you will never become a high rater, but with practise you can get it higher.

I like the idea of tapping it along. Makes sense to me...

I looked up his video on youtube about ratings and have tried out his advice the last 3 erg sessions...gotta say, ive found it very enlightening. He describes them as "builders" and advises to think about it as "tapping it along"...15 strokes steadily building the rating to where its comfortable then paddle pressure for a min, rinse and repeat.

Which video were you watching? I see he has quite a few. It's awesome that he put them out there.

[Ollie Russell]

I did an hour yesterday and focused on keeping the sr > 25. I started out doing 26-27 and got into a decent rhythm.. after 5 minutes or so, I noticed my sr dropping to 25 and at 15 minutes, it was hitting 24. I was reverting back to more powerful strokes. I remembered Henry's mention of strapless and unstrapped. Now, my drive length went way down (as expected), but I was able to hold 26-27 for the rest of the hour... and ended up with 26 avg. Very pleased

if possible even strapless.
Its partly your preferred stroke, you will never become a high rater, but with practise you can get it higher.

I like the idea of tapping it along. Makes sense to me...

I looked up his video on youtube about ratings and have tried out his advice the last 3 erg sessions...gotta say, ive found it very enlightening. He describes them as "builders" and advises to think about it as "tapping it along"...15 strokes steadily building the rating to where its comfortable then paddle pressure for a min, rinse and repeat.

Which video were you watching? I see he has quite a few. It's awesome that he put them out there.

https://youtu.be/pXBzP9_7vZQ

[RayOfSunshine]

Which video were you watching? I see he has quite a few. It's awesome that he put them out there.

https://youtu.be/pXBzP9_7vZQ

Thanks so much! That video rocks. I will do some "builders". He had mentioned "tapping it along" in another video and I used that today. Thinking of it that way made my stroke much more fluid.

[RayOfSunshine]

Update: after about 3 weeks of rowing at higher sr, it's really feeling more natural.

I never thought rowing strapless for an hour @ 28spm @ 60% or 70% of HRR would be beneficial. Wow, was I wrong. My reach/flexibility going into the catch is better (and I moved the # of holes showing from 3 to 4 on the footplate) and I'm much smoother. Breathing is more rhythmic versus labored.

I think my "new natural" sr for an hour will be 25-26 versus 22-23. If nothing else, it was good to spice up the routine a bit. Oh, and the Eric Murray videos are great.

Thanks again everyone.

[Cyclingman1]

Ray, having a strong stroke is ofcourse a goal to strive for, but we have to be able to use that stroke. In the end its seldom strength that is the limiting factor. Aerobic fitness is.

If I'm reading Henry correctly, I'm in agreement. Must be getting soft in my old age.

When I jumped into erging on a whim some 7 1/2 yrs ago just before turning 66, I had in nearly 40 yrs as a runner and cyclist, although bad hips stopped my running. I was extremely aerobically fit and not really all that weak in upper body. Erging at 30-33 SPM was simply natural and guess I could say easy. And my times were pretty good for 66: 5K: 17:34; 2K: 6:40. I never felt compelled to row in the low 20s for SPM. And FWIIW, I generally use DF of ~150.

But it really is about fitness. You've got to be fit to go up and down that rail with full strokes at 30+ SPM. One might say, if I can do 10 W/stroke at 20 SPM, all I have to do is increase SPM to 30 and I'll be at 300W. Doesn't work that way. You won't have the fitness to do 10W/s at 30 SPM. Staying at 20 SPM won't work either. Who can do 17.5W/stroke for ~7 mins for a 6:40 2K? Not very darn many. But I did 10.6W/stroke at 33 SPM for 6:40.

To work on fitness at higher SPM, do shorter intervals using the targeted SPM. In other words, do 250s or 350s or 500s at, say, 32 SPM, not 40-45.

[RayOfSunshine]

Ray, having a strong stroke is ofcourse a goal to strive for, but we have to be able to use that stroke. In the end its seldom strength that is the limiting factor. Aerobic fitness is.

If I'm reading Henry correctly, I'm in agreement. Must be getting soft in my old age.

When I jumped into erging on a whim some 7 1/2 yrs ago just before turning 66, I had in nearly 40 yrs as a runner and cyclist, although bad hips stopped my running. I was extremely aerobically fit and not really all that weak in upper body. Erging at 30-33 SPM was simply natural and guess I could say easy. And my times were pretty good for 66: 5K: 17:34; 2K: 6:40. I never felt compelled to row in the low 20s for SPM. And FWIIW, I generally use DF of ~150.

But it really is about fitness. You've got to be fit to go up and down that rail with full strokes at 30+ SPM. One might say, if I can do 10 W/stroke at 20 SPM, all I have to do is increase SPM to 30 and I'll be at 300W. Doesn't work that way. You won't have the fitness to do 10W/s at 30 SPM. Staying at 20 SPM won't work either. Who can do 17.5W/stroke for ~7 mins for a 6:40 2K? Not very darn many. But I did 10.6W/stroke at 33 SPM for 6:40.

To work on fitness at higher SPM, do shorter intervals using the targeted SPM. In other words, do 250s or 350s or 500s at, say, 32 SPM, not 40-45.

You reminded me that I forgot to mention, I bumped my DF up from around 110 to 125 when increasing the SPM. I think I probably need to bump it up again and see how that feels. I have relatively strong legs and decent upper body, but my fitness has a lot of room for improvement. I think I preferred working on a "strong" stroke at low SPM in my 1st year because that was naturally easier (being 230lbs)

[RayOfSunshine]

Thank you. I'm super stoked right now.

[Dangerscouse]

Thank you. I'm super stoked right now.

Very happy for you Ray. 15k+ for the hour of power is a big milestone

[David Pomerantz]

I’ve added in a very small amount of jogging ~1mile after each rowing session over the last month or so. I’m not sure, but I think it’s helping me to rate up a bit.

I’m currently doing a RowPro 2K Plan. In RowPro the base work between intervals (UT2 I believe) is at higher rating than I think most here would agree with. In the 2K plan it’s at 24-26. I’m finding maintaining that rating easier now near the end of the current plan. Of course it could be just doing the plan has made the difference, but I feel jogging has added something a little extra.

Dave

[RayOfSunshine]

I’ve added in a very small amount of jogging ~1mile after each rowing session over the last month or so. I’m not sure, but I think it’s helping me to rate up a bit.

I’m currently doing a RowPro 2K Plan. In RowPro the base work between intervals (UT2 I believe) is at higher rating than I think most here would agree with. In the 2K plan it’s at 24-26. I’m finding maintaining that rating easier now near the end of the current plan. Of course it could be just doing the plan has made the difference, but I feel jogging has added something a little extra.

Dave

I've added one long jog 4-5 miles a week as well. That has definitely made a diffrence. The thing that helped the most with the stroke rate was rowing strapless at a forced, higher, spm. My breathing was forced to adjust and it became easier after a couple weeks. I had to move the DF up as the SR increased.

[MartinSH4321]

Thank you. I'm super stoked right now.

Well done Ray, that's a great milestone you reached!