Adding rowing to strenth training and running

[simtman]

Hi all,

I've been wanting to include indoor rowing and the SkiErg to my weekly routine but have been struggling to figure the exact schedule out, I'd appreciate any input regarding this. My current structure has been doing a full body strength workout on Monday then running on Tuesday and Wednesday, doing upper body strength training on Thursday and lower body on Friday with Saturday and Sunday off.

I'm thinking of doing two full body strength workouts on Monday and Thursday, rowing on Tuesday and Friday following the strength training days and then on Wednesday either run or bike or row as well or combine either of the three. My aim is general fitness, don't want to lose weight, would be happy to add some muscle or get leaner without losing too much weight.

Would the above schedule work or are there better alternatives? What would be the rowing workout types that would makse sense - one long steady and one interval?

[G-dub]

Tough one. Your program sounds OK, especially if you stick to it! It’s hard to do all we want within the confines of a week. Not knowing your age, we have to deal with recovery. It’s hard to do all of it to the max, so picking a focus and filling in around that might make sense. For instance if your focus is building strength, you can put rowing, running, biking skerging around that as a sort of recovery / conditioning focus. To do that, I would just do what mode feels good on the day and allow the conditioning work to be a bit fun and spontaneous. Sometime later you might want to shift focus to a different mode and drill into it. I also have learned that it’s Ok to just be on maintenance mode for most of the time with periods in the year where you bring up the intensity in something that interests you. But most of all, it’s about showing up and doing it day by day, week by week, month by month and chopping wood. What we do seems less important than being consistent.

The erg is great because you can go long or go short and fast. Both are great. There are different philosophies about which is better. I might use the erg to warm up and cool down your weight training sessions as a way to add in some easy conditioning. And there is nothing wrong with 30” on 30” off for some high intensity work once a week

[Gammmmo]

Would the above schedule work or are there better alternatives? What would be the rowing workout types that would makse sense - one long steady and one interval?

Why can't you workout on Sat/Sun? Also, bear in mind that protein synthesis from weight training takes typically up to 36 hours (often peaking at around 24hrs) which is much, much longer than the adaptions take from cardio. Generally, you want preceed any day off with a weights day so as keep that signal going - cardio afterwards will blunt it. What I do is HIT on the ergo on the same day (>3 hours before) as weights and have gone from total weekly KMs on the erg of typically 60 to 30-35 but more of that is HIT and even the LSD isn't that slow. Do be very careful with HIT on the ergo as it's a great way to get injured if you're not used to it. Also bear in mind that the longer the ergo session the more it will (again) blunt your muscle gains - in effect you are sending a signal to your body to shed muscle because it's making you less efficient for LSD. Finally, bear in my mind running will strip muscle probably even faster than the erg, as it's a weight bearing activity.

To do that, I would just do what mode feels good on the day and allow the conditioning work to be a bit fun and spontaneous. Sometime later you might want to shift focus to a different mode and drill into it. I also have learned that it’s Ok to just be on maintenance mode for most of the time with periods in the year where you bring up the intensity in something that interests you.

This.

[jamesg]

What would be the rowing workout types that would make sense

What makes most sense is endurance, so work up to a pair of 5 - 10 k pieces per week, done at low rating and about 2W/kg fit-weight, according to age. Make sure your posture and sequences are correct if you've never been afloat. The erg is best used at low drag and with a balance of force and length, so that we can do most external work with least effort: what it measures is Work done on the handle.

[Gammmmo]

What makes most sense is endurance

and yet....

don't want to lose weight, would be happy to add some muscle

I think the OP needs to work out what his priority is....build muscle or get more aerobically fit. Yes, you'll get newbie gains from introducing something new but soon enough you'll be limiting gains.

[hjs]

Maybe have a look at Crossfit, they do everything in one go.

You can combine the skierg and rower in one session.

You could do a wu for weights on 1 machine and the cd on the other.

In general, if you want to serveral different things and have limited time, you can,t get around combinating stuff.

Upperbodyweight and rowing work well together.

Lowerbody goes with skierg.

Your current ideas are only standalone, which gives not enough trainingsessions per kind of sport.

Weight, eat enough, certainly protein.

[dsoucek]

Gammmmo, would you be willing to post some of the HIIT workouts you do?

[Gammmmo]

Gammmmo, would you be willing to post some of the HIIT workouts you do?

Fairly standard stuff....generally you want to target creatinephosphate system, glycolytic system and then sessions where there is some aerobic component as well. Obviously play with rest interval to either target lactate tolerance or more complete clearance for higher quality efforts (the longer the rest interval the more the session tends towards that of the latter in terms of what it's training).

1. 8x250m (rests=60s)
2. 10x100m (rests=45s-3mins depending on whether I want the CreatinePhosphate system to replenish or not)
3. 3x500m (rests=5mins)
4. 1K efforts at "~90%" so I look to dip under 3:20 atm...my 3:14 PB is soft. Hopefully I'll stop sandbagging and report something 3:10-3:12 soon. Earlier this week I clocked 3:17.4 and it wasn't overly stressful. I rarely post in "Training Today thread" now unless it's of significance to me.

[simtman]

Thank you all for the replies. To add some background I'm 32 yo, I've been mostly doing long distance running for the past couple of years adding in some weight training 1-2 a week and some swimming occasionally. I had a few injuries and even before that was feeling I wanted to get more diversity in my training as well as go for a more balanced fitness routine, thus I've focused more on the gym, doing four seission a week up until recently and adding one or two days of running and sometimes a day of swimming. At 185cm I went from 76-77kg to 88-89kg when focusing more on strength training but I do feel that I'd enjoy doing some more cardio and I've always liked the erg thus here I am trying to figure it out for a weekly schedule.

Fully understand I cannot focus more on endurance and build muscle at the same time so maybe to rephrase the goal here - I'd like to keep my bodyweight close to what it currently is give or take a few kg but include the erg a bit more and have a well balance schedule.

To answer Gammmmos question - I could workout on the weekend and have been doing so for years, its just easier to workout M-F(I workout before work) and have the weekend for family time mostly. The routine I suggested above I was thinking that Sunday could be used a cardio day for a nice run for example if I have the time but if there are any other suggestions happy to consider them too.

Taking into account what I read above would it make sense to switch up the order of the workouts to the following:
M- rowing, long steady
T- full body strenght session
W - rest or an active recovery session on the bike or run
T- rowing - interval
F - full body strength session
S - rest
S - rest or active recovery e.g. swimming, running, bike

This way I could have the time to recover from my gym session better I feel as per Gammmmo your suggestion, the main thing with this one is then that I cannot go too hard on the erg as I would not be able to get the most out of my gym workout. My concern with this one as well as the schedule I suggested earlier is if two gym sessions are enough to maintain current weight.

Also, maybe its worth to mention that I have a gym at my office and could do rowing during lunch so I could in theory squeeze in two workouts a day, for example strength in the morning and rowing during lunch if that would make sense.

[dsoucek]

Thanks, Gammmmo.
Good ideas. So these sessions train power production and sprinting ability? Is there much benefit to 2K training in these or is it mostly meant for training without impacting strength gains? would you cycle out of this type of schedule if training for 2K. Sorry if this hijacks the thread

[Gammmmo]

Thanks, Gammmmo.
Good ideas. So these sessions train power production and sprinting ability? Is there much benefit to 2K training in these or is it mostly meant for training without impacting strength gains? would you cycle out of this type of schedule if training for 2K. Sorry if this hijacks the thread

yeh mainly to synergise with the weights as best I can. 2K performance can be approached from either way - most from more focus on aerobic capabilities but there has been some talk on here doing it the other way....

[JimS]

I workout 5 days a week before work too. Mix of rowing and weights circuit.

Just a few thoughts.

Ive spent years obsessing over the perfect workout. Now im more patient generally and just focus on working out every day and avoiding injury. Somehow im now in some of the best shape of my life at 36.

Lower rep stuff seems to work better on alternate days with rowing. I guess because its different energy systems?

Kettle bell swings, snatches and cleans seem to work well with rowing, but im super cautious on form as i can get a fatigued lower back pretty quickly if i get it wrong.

Lots of pressing and core work is important, as this is the "opposite" of the rowing movements.

[simtman]

Thanks JimS, do you combine rowing with weight training on the same day or do you separate them generally? Fully agree that there needs to be some flexibility and I have no issues with changing things up when I travel or I cannot make it the gym on a particular day however I do enjoy having a routine I dedicate myself to as long as I'm healthy and feeling good.

[Dangerscouse]

Lots of pressing and core work is important, as this is the "opposite" of the rowing movements.

Totally agree, a strong core (both front and back) is essential to help stay injury free...or minimise injuries at least. Dumbbell, or seated machine flyes, are great to really open up the chest and I think you need to add in rotator cuff exercises to fully strengthen the shoulders

[JimS]

Thanks JimS, do you combine rowing with weight training on the same day or do you separate them generally? Fully agree that there needs to be some flexibility and I have no issues with changing things up when I travel or I cannot make it the gym on a particular day however I do enjoy having a routine I dedicate myself to as long as I'm healthy and feeling good.

Seperate days.

Week looks something like this.

Mon. 5k max effort row.
Tuesday.
- pistol squats
- upright row
- kb swing
- OH db press
- db curls
- pressups
- planks
Wed - 3 x 1500 row
Thursday
- db Front Squat
- bent over row
- kb snatch
- decline press up
- db curl
- OH press
- plank
Friday. 30min row
Saturday. Rugby game
Sunday. Rest

Thursday i sometime do rugby training in the evening and i either skip the weights or miss the squats and pulls.