Tips for keeping the back out of the stroke?

[tm3]

I've had a lot of trouble with back pain (mostly upper, between shoulder blades) keeping me off the rower. I've done some strengthening work as prescribed by a physical therapist and while that has helped the real key seems to be keeping my back muscles relaxed as I start the drive ie making sure that I begin the stroke with my legs and primarily power with my legs. I'm fairly successful until I start upping my pace/effort and then I invariably start pulling my back.

I've used drag factors ranging from 85 to about 110.

One training video I found said to be sure that the heels don't come up in the catch which makes sense but if I do that my shins are nowhere close to vertical and I think I'm making a pretty abbreviated, inefficient stroke.

Oddly, if I start the drive with the feeling of pushing with only one foot, either left or right, I seem to do a better job of keeping the drive power in the legs.

I've also been told to really focus on contracting my abs at the start of the drive but that does not work.

I sure would appreciate any suggestions or tips!

[Citroen]

Get a side-on video of your rowing, post it on YouTube, post the URL on here.

[hjs]

Not lifting the feet at the catch us a sure way of keeping the legs out and overusing the back, almost nobody has flexible enough ankles to pull that of. Including you, since you don,t reach vertikal shins.

Not using the back in rowing is more or less impossible to start with, between the feet pushing and the hands pulling, the back has to transfer the powers.

You can do things to lower the stress overall. Keep the drag low, use long fluend strokes, keep the rating a bit higher, start out at a very relax pace.

Maybe this can help you a bit

[Ombrax]

If you look at the C2 "this is how one should row" videos the gal is lifting her heels at the catch.

I'm no expert, but I don't believe there's anything horribly wrong with doing that. Especially in your case.

[tm3]

Thanks for the comments!

I'll see if I can get someone to video me.

IIRC, the "avoid heel lift" was from a Dark Horse Rowing video. I'll not use them as an information source again.

hjs, are you saying that with correct form eventually the back should strengthen enough such that this is no longer an issue?

[Dangerscouse]

It's a nice idea to not lift the heels but in reality all you can do is get them down as quickly as possible.

Keep thinking about the mind body connection to ensure you use your legs enough, eventually it will become second nature, and yes, your back will strengthen over time but doing core and bodyweight exercises can really help too if you don't want to weight lift.

[gooseflight]

The heels issue comes up a lot. There is a certain 'rowing' channel that erroneously promotes heels down.

Lifting the heels is a Good Thing:

https://www.rowperfect.co.uk/the-scienc ... eels-down/

For someone with back problems, it is definitely a good thing. The heels going down is a useful timing mark in the stroke at which the back can be fully engaged because the biggest muscles in the body -- glutes, quads -- have gotten things safely underway.

There was another thread on this recently where the importance of good core strength was emphasised. Skeletal abnormalities notwithstanding, back problems are often associated with a weak core.

[hjs]

Thanks for the comments!

I'll see if I can get someone to video me.

IIRC, the "avoid heel lift" was from a Dark Horse Rowing video. I'll not use them as an information source again.

hjs, are you saying that with correct form eventually the back should strengthen enough such that this is no longer an issue?

In the end that should be the idea. Serious rowing and not using the back is simply not possible, so the only solution is getting the ready to do the work.

[tm3]

Thanks everyone.

I actually was able to get on a C2 in front of a mirror today. I think that at least part of the problem may be due to over reaching on the catch -- I was confident that I wasn't doing this, until I looked at the mirror. We'll see. I still think I'm trying to apply power too early with my back instead of my legs, though.

Whatever the root cause, it is definitely accentuated by trying to go faster like in intervals. Maybe I need to back off until I'm sure that my form is better.

[jamesg]

Try putting a front stop on the rail to give yourself a more appropriate catch posture. Seat back, trunk swung forward and straight, knees at 45°, shins vertical.

At the catch our CG must be forward of the slide but not over the feet, so that the vertical couple (vertical leg thrust component / weight) is larger than the horizontal couple (legs / arms). Otherwise we lift off the seat. If the seat and CG are too far forward, the legs can't be used, so we try to use the back. But that's not what it's for and it complains.

In any case since work is distance x force, the only muscles that can do large amounts of work are the long ones connected to joints that rotate: knees and hips.

[jamesg]

To keep the heels down at the catch, the sole/shin angle would have to be 45-50°. In India I saw people who can do this easily, sitting on their heels at bus-stops. For westerners it seems to be more unusual. In boats with clogs and heel cups, not flexible shoes tied down under the ball of the foot only, a pair of socks lasted about a week.

[lindsayh]

IIRC, the "avoid heel lift" was from a Dark Horse Rowing video. I'll not use them as an information source again.
hjs, are you saying that with correct form eventually the back should strengthen enough such that this is no longer an issue?

I think that by and large the Dark Horse stuff is pretty good - it's more the heel lift video in particular that many have an issue with.
I agree that the back and core is super important and as you train with good technique engaging the core your problems should resolve.
If you do a really hard abs session and then try to erg the next day then the importance becomes obvious!

[tm3]

Try putting a front stop on the rail to give yourself a more appropriate catch posture. Seat back, trunk swung forward and straight, knees at 45°, shins vertical.

It sounds like to get into that position I'll need to bend more at the hips. I'll give it a try.

Putting on a front stop was what was recommended to stop the heel lift, so I think I know how to set that up.

Thanks!

[Neorticros]

God, it's not that difficult to understand. They tell noob people (typical gym rowers) not lift heels as they start cos they tend to put their hips in front of their shoulders and touch the seat with their heels. It's just a tip for starters to fix most common mistakes. They are not telling you that propper rowing technique is heels down. It's always easier to move from not-lifting heels to lift them as you progress than going from a plain bad technique to a good one. They also suggest noobs to put a band tied in the rail to avoid going too far forward, are you going to criticise them for doing that because you shouldn't row with a band tied???? Seriously...

[jackarabit]

Actually the sliding seat s of the mother sport have front stops (rail caps/shin biters). On the erg (simulator), we improvise and add the preventer.

Abstraction of static body and limb positions from a dynamic cycle of movement is as old as painting and sculpture but a bit too much has been made of stop action photography (and stop action thought) as a teaching tool.

The balls of foot spring is the crucial mammalian movement in fight and flight and a great neural trigger for muscle fiber enlistment in the ankling move which transitions to heel down pushing. It is possible imo to row without the heel rise as per crew rowing stroke mechanics video linked below:

https://youtu.be/Js9CwDU1Bi0?t=542