Damper settings / drag factor question

[Hangar18]

Appreciate this has been discussed at length before but I’m confused about one thing. Most seem to use 3-5 damper settings to get the drag factor between 115-140, whereas I have to use around 6-7 to achieve the same thing. Wondering if concept 2 rowers are different in different parts of the world? Either that or the rowers at my gym (anytime fitness) are full of dust and crud.

In case it somehow helps I’m 44Male, 184cm, 75kg, SYDNEY based, with good aerobic conditioning (swimming and running mainly)

[Citroen]

All Concept2 rowers are identical when they leave the factory.

Some get cleaned, some don't.

If you can't get the drag factor you'd like at a damper setting you've chosen that machine probably hasn't been cleaned since it left the factory.

[Hangar18]

Thanks. This might be an obvious question but I’m guessing a clean machine will make a massive difference to times and hence pbs?

[Rod]

Thanks. This might be an obvious question but I’m guessing a clean machine will make a massive difference to times and hence pbs?

No it won't.

A DF of 120 (for example) may be at a lever setting of 4 on a new (and dust free ) machine but at a setting of 6 on an older one that has not been cleaned out and has a lot of dust in it so there will be no difference in how you perform on them, you would be as capable of a PB on either.

It's the DF that matters, not the lever position that it's at to get that number DF.

[Hangar18]

Thanks rod. I’ll just try experimenting with the DF as up until recently I’ve put the damper on the 10 max thinking (in my ignorance) that was optimal

[Hangar18]

Any thoughts on what diff a DF of say 200 (max 10 damper) vs 135 might make to a 5k time of say 18:30? I appreciate it might vary by person but curious to know what your gut feel is?

[Anth_F]

Probably won't make any difference, regardless of what the DF setting is.

Lower df simply means the indoor rower feels like a sleek racing shell, and at the higher df numbers, the indoor rower feels like a slow row boat.

[Rod]

Any thoughts on what diff a DF of say 200 (max 10 damper) vs 135 might make to a 5k time of say 18:30? I appreciate it might vary by person but curious to know what your gut feel is?

Rowing anything (other than maybe a 100m) with a DF of 200 would be a very bad idea as the handle would be way to 'heavy' and you would mess up your technique and not get anywhere near your best time.....that's if you were to get to the end at all as you would certainly not feel like it!


http://ifailedfran.com/why-you-shouldnt ... wer-to-10/

The lever only goes up as high as 10 so that you can get a (hopefully) usable DF when the machine is badly clogged up....it's not there to for rowing on if the machine is dust free.

I'm a Lwt (under 75k) and use 115 for everything.

Experiment a bit, see what suits you best.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... etting-101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuyp0sGYBlA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTXV3W3_Nig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rySeSi93KYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4COPlfJfnuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uc2HQILJhU

[Rod]

Probably won't make any difference, regardless of what the DF setting is.

Lower df simply means the indoor rower feels like a sleek racing shell, and at the higher df numbers, the indoor rower feels like a slow row boat.

I disagree...too high a DF or too low a DF will make a big difference so you need to get it right, we're all different but the wrong DF will badly handicap your chances of doing the best you are capable of.

http://ifailedfran.com/why-you-shouldnt ... wer-to-10/

[Anth_F]

I've toyed about with DF settings, (never on a max df though) can't say i seen any improvement in my numbers. It was more just the feel thing i noticed.

[ukaserex]

Explaining drag factor to a new rower has always been a bit complicated.

I try to make the illustration that the meters will be higher/faster per the work part of the stroke on a higher drag factor vs. a lower drag factor, whereas during the recovery portion, (the return to the catch from the finish position) the meters will be higher with a lower drag factor vs a higher drag factor.

You might get 15 meters on a stroke with the damper at 10, but on the return, you get 5.
You change the damper to 3, and you might get 9 meters on a stroke, but get 6 on the recovery. It will pretty much come out in the wash as 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other. The important thing is to recognize which drag factor gives you the most efficient stroke - not only when you first start your row, but when you're fatigued.

The fatigue factor is probably why most have the damper between 3-5.

When I first started to row, I thought I was a big strong guy, and I had the damper at 10. No worries. However, on longer rows, I would tire out fairly soon. Eventually, I saw some videos on drag factor, and began to adjust it downward to 110 for those longer rows and have yet to regret it.

For anything less than 5k, I'll put it on 117-125, depending on what I'm doing. For shorter sprints, I may go up to 130-135.

[Hangar18]

Really helpful comments - thanks everyone! The DF dynamic has given me a whole new dimension to explore but there’s still a few things baffling me. Until recently I’ve always rowed on damper setting 10 (the max) and contrary to what most seem to find, my relative performance is better as distance increases. What I mean is this. My pbs (using avg time/500 as it’s more helpful to illustrate what I mean)

For 2km: 1:48 / 500 avg
For 5km: 1:52 / 500
For 10km: 1:55/500

For me therefore, there is roughly a 7 second per 500m deterioration going from 2km to 10km on damper 10 setting. Observing what I see from people’s pbs on here that gap is typically wider (10secs or more), so am wondering if contrary to popular belief the longer the distance the higher the DF the better the outcome? Or perhaps I’m just an odd anomaly. My body type is normal - I’m not some weird body build ‘arnie’ type that might otherwise explain things.

On another note I desperately want to get better at the 2km level - haven’t rowed much at this distance am going to give the Aus indoor rowing championships a bash in October. Just for fun, not chasing glory, but would love to go sub 7min.

[Ombrax]

For me therefore, there is roughly a 7 second per 500m deterioration going from 2km to 10km on damper 10 setting. Observing what I see from people’s pbs on here that gap is typically wider (10secs or more), so am wondering if contrary to popular belief the longer the distance the higher the DF the better the outcome?

Don't forget that that difference is primarily affected by what you can do in longer vs shorter pieces and attributable to your mind & body rather than the influence of the DF. There really are too many variables involved to try to claim that "using a high DF allows me to be just as fast over long distances as I am at shorter ones," or the flip side of the argument which would be that a high DF slows you down on shorter pieces relative to what you can do for longer ones.

The bottom line is that you should use the DF that works best for you, but if you are proposing to use a high DF be sure to also try a few rows at one that's, say, 20 "points" (or whatever the units are called) lower to confirm that the high number truly is right for you. Unless your body type is more like The Incredible Hulk than most rowers, odds something around 110-140 will work best. YMMV

Good Luck

[hjs]

Really helpful comments - thanks everyone! The DF dynamic has given me a whole new dimension to explore but there’s still a few things baffling me. Until recently I’ve always rowed on damper setting 10 (the max) and contrary to what most seem to find, my relative performance is better as distance increases. What I mean is this. My pbs (using avg time/500 as it’s more helpful to illustrate what I mean)

For 2km: 1:48 / 500 avg
For 5km: 1:52 / 500
For 10km: 1:55/500

For me therefore, there is roughly a 7 second per 500m deterioration going from 2km to 10km on damper 10 setting. Observing what I see from people’s pbs on here that gap is typically wider (10secs or more), so am wondering if contrary to popular belief the longer the distance the higher the DF the better the outcome? Or perhaps I’m just an odd anomaly. My body type is normal - I’m not some weird body build ‘arnie’ type that might otherwise explain things.

On another note I desperately want to get better at the 2km level - haven’t rowed much at this distance am going to give the Aus indoor rowing championships a bash in October. Just for fun, not chasing glory, but would love to go sub 7min.

Maybe you are a pure non sprinter, these have smaller differences. Think you should focus on training and not drag. A good rower will always beat a slower rower on any drag.
Some people like the slow feeling of high drags, if it does not give you trouble thats fine. On the other hand if you can,t pull decent splits on lower drags your technique is not great.
Changing drag to much is also not helpfull, you need to develope a certain stroke, if you constant change your drag that will be difficult.

[jamesg]

Explaining drag factor to a new rower has always been a bit complicated.

Drag controls the flywheel and so the pull speeds. If the drag is right, the action speed lets us pull a full length stroke in quick time and so deliver plenty of external work to the handle, with a satisfactory balance of length and force.

This full length rowing style engages the large and best muscles for producing external work, in hips and legs. However there is a little know-how to be acquired to actually use it, so the right drag is a necessary but not sufficient condition.

We may of course also be reluctant, initially, to use our legs as the right drag and speed levels can enable. This despite having seen rowing as the only true sport; it can indeed be inordinately hard work.

Some beginners may tend to lay blame on the machine or even the water. Others are unfamiliar with sweat. This reluctancy and consequent corner cutting and bad style must be suppressed immediately. Coaches do this and we obey or stay ashore.