Small Breakthrough

[alien878]

A bit of background on myself:

I was a competitive swimmer throughout the 80s. Things slid a bit after that to the point that I have been pretty much a desk jockey for the last 10 years. I finally decided I needed to change that and since a 25m pool isn't going to fit in the back yard, I took up erging in January.

As I was seriously out of shape but still have a bit of a competitive streak, I decided to start with HR capped training to keep things under control and work on my technique. I started off with a 2:32 pace and have slowly improved to a 2:17 pace in the last 2 1/2 months (HR140). Rate started around 18 and has increased to about 21-22. More than that and my technique would get a bit "wobbly".

Last night, I had a bit of a breakthrough. I was at the end of a slightly disappointing 3x2000 and decided to pick things up a bit for the last 250m to get the average pace down to at least 2:18 (did I mention I was competitive?). I increased to a 2:10r25 and things felt really good. My HR actually dropped a bit. Decided I wanted to see what a 2:00 pace felt like....

By the time I hit the end of the set, I was humming along at 1:55r29 and it felt GREAT! I haven't felt like that in years! Everything seemed to click. My HR was only 147 (although admittedly, another 30-60s and I would have hit the wall and hit it hard). That is the first time I have been able to bump the pace/rate significantly without things going "wobbly".

I've been avoiding any HIT training until after my next doctor checkup. I think I might have to schedule my appointment a bit early as I have really missed that feeling.

Allen H (M54 1.82cm 78kg)

[Dangerscouse]

Great post Allen. It's a slow process getting 'erg fit' but it sounds to me like you have got a great basis to work from.

Stay patient and hopefully that great feeling will continue

[mitchel674]

That is a great feeling. Every once in a while I will hit that zone where my rate and speed combine with an almost effortless stroke that feels fantastic and my wattage is much greater than typical. This rarely lasts long but keeps me hoping that it will return. Enjoy the sensation and remain patient.

[KeithT]

A bit of background on myself:

I was a competitive swimmer throughout the 80s. Things slid a bit after that to the point that I have been pretty much a desk jockey for the last 10 years. I finally decided I needed to change that and since a 25m pool isn't going to fit in the back yard, I took up erging in January.

As I was seriously out of shape but still have a bit of a competitive streak, I decided to start with HR capped training to keep things under control and work on my technique. I started off with a 2:32 pace and have slowly improved to a 2:17 pace in the last 2 1/2 months (HR140). Rate started around 18 and has increased to about 21-22. More than that and my technique would get a bit "wobbly".

Last night, I had a bit of a breakthrough. I was at the end of a slightly disappointing 3x2000 and decided to pick things up a bit for the last 250m to get the average pace down to at least 2:18 (did I mention I was competitive?). I increased to a 2:10r25 and things felt really good. My HR actually dropped a bit. Decided I wanted to see what a 2:00 pace felt like....

By the time I hit the end of the set, I was humming along at 1:55r29 and it felt GREAT! I haven't felt like that in years! Everything seemed to click. My HR was only 147 (although admittedly, another 30-60s and I would have hit the wall and hit it hard). That is the first time I have been able to bump the pace/rate significantly without things going "wobbly".

I've been avoiding any HIT training until after my next doctor checkup. I think I might have to schedule my appointment a bit early as I have really missed that feeling.

Allen H (M54 1.82cm 78kg)

You have taken things slow and built upon it which is great! Just keep plugging away and when ready do some faster rows, I think you will surprise yourself with what you can do - again when you are ready and "cleared" by Dr. to do so.

[hjs]

Curious what a doctor needs to tell you? I seldom come across doctors who look healthy themselves.

To me you fall in the cath. Being very causious.

But nice, must have been a good feeling. Rating up should give you a good bit extra, exactly what you got.

[alien878]

Thanks for all the supportive posts!

mitchel674 : That's it exactly! Every once in a while I get a few strokes that seem effortless, but I get a huge boost in watts. I haven't pinned down what I'm doing different yet.

Curious what a doctor needs to tell you? I seldom come across doctors who look healthy themselves.

I think that's an occupational hazard

Seriously, I've know a few too many cardiac and stroke victims my age to not be cautious. One of the reasons I started this. I no longer have a good feeling for my physical limits, so when I start HIT training I'm probably going to hit my limits hard. There's no hurry. I still need a LOT more miles under the belt before I start worrying about speed/strength. It's hard waiting though...

Allen H

[hjs]

Thanks for all the supportive posts!

mitchel674 : That's it exactly! Every once in a while I get a few strokes that seem effortless, but I get a huge boost in watts. I haven't pinned down what I'm doing different yet.

Curious what a doctor needs to tell you? I seldom come across doctors who look healthy themselves.

I think that's an occupational hazard

Seriously, I've know a few too many cardiac and stroke victims my age to not be cautious. One of the reasons I started this. I no longer have a good feeling for my physical limits, so when I start HIT training I'm probably going to hit my limits hard. There's no hurry. I still need a LOT more miles under the belt before I start worrying about speed/strength. It's hard waiting though...

Allen H

The most dangerous moments, if there are heartrelated issues is right after waking up, we are slightly dehydrated. For the rest, we lots of reserves, that pump is made to last a lifetime.

I guess its mostly a mindset, some people like to push themselves, others feel fine working out much more easily.

There is nothing you NEED to do.

[johnlvs2run]

Your stroke rate is way to low for regular training.

Seriously, I've know a few too many cardiac and stroke victims my age to not be cautious.

Same here, and every single one of them has been seeing doctors - which is why I never do that.

[gooseflight]

Your stroke rate is way to low for regular training.

22 spm for ~2:17 pace looks fine to me

[alien878]

Your stroke rate is way to low for regular training.

22 spm for ~2:17 pace looks fine to me

Therefore: 2:17 pace is way to low for regular training. QED.

I'm working on it. I still have a problem maintaining technique at higher rates. I had done very little erging before January. There was a concept model B in the weight room at school I would sometimes use when the rowers weren't hogging it. They all cringed at my form. I rowed like a swimmer: As long a stroke as possible and use all the muscles over as much of the stroke as possible. Let's just say, it was good I had straps on. I didn't care at the time. I just enjoyed trying to see how fast I could make that fan spin. I'm trying to do it right this time.

[gooseflight]

Therefore: 2:17 pace is way to low for regular training. QED.

Not at all. In terms of where you're at that's fine for continuous distance pieces. I'm not sure how far you go just now but say 6K+. Just keep chipping away. You can keep the rate low and gradually increase the pace on longer, steady pieces.

For shorter, faster pieces you will probably want to rate up whilst maintaining form, as you have already observed.

3 x 2K would usually be viewed as an endurance interval session and one where you would look to rate up. But that may not be how you're treating it at the moment. Rating up tends to tax the CV system more than lower rates where we get more rest between strokes.

Rating low is a Good Thing. Keeping the rate as low as possible for a given pace/distance is not a bad objective (outside of racing). Just don't wrestle the machine.

[alien878]

There was a smiley after that QED

I typically do 6-10k in a workout. I break it up in intervals so I don't get bored. Typically 30s to 2 min rest depending on how I feel and how long the interval is. My weakness is currently CV, so picked a HR probably in the low UT1 range (I've never tested my maxHR, so I can't be sure.... but it feels about that).

Still trying to get my head around 3x2k being a short piece that one would rate up in.

I didn't think I was wrestling the machine. I set the DF low at 107. However, now you mention it, maybe that is why sometimes I feel the effort drop away when I manage to rate up without losing form. I'm going to have to experiment more with that.

[gooseflight]

There was a smiley after that QED

I typically do 6-10k in a workout. I break it up in intervals so I don't get bored. Typically 30s to 2 min rest depending on how I feel and how long the interval is. My weakness is currently CV, so picked a HR probably in the low UT1 range (I've never tested my maxHR, so I can't be sure.... but it feels about that).

Still trying to get my head around 3x2k being a short piece that one would rate up in.

I didn't think I was wrestling the machine. I set the DF low at 107. However, now you mention it, maybe that is why sometimes I feel the effort drop away when I manage to rate up without losing form. I'm going to have to experiment more with that.

Saw that

3 [or 4] x 2K is three short pieces typically with 5 minutes rest. By no means flat out but quality work. Obviously the pace/rest will determine the type of workout. Nothing wrong with breaking up distance pieces for comfort.

I wasn't suggesting you were wrestling machine, just a general comment on not letting the rate go so low [at a given pace] that the session becomes something else altogether. You can lose form at both ends of rate scale. You will find your own sweet spots depending on a bunch of factors.

[Allan Olesen]

Regarding how much to lower the stroke rate in training:

The general idea seems to be that you should row each stroke with the same effort as if you were in competition. And to avoid doing overall competition effort in normal training, you limit the stroke rate.

Mike Caviston has in his Wolverine plan formalized this a lot with tables for L4 sessions where you can look up your PB* 2k time and find some pace/SPM combinations which will give the same effort per stroke as if you were in a race.

But actually, if using Watt, you can achieve the same result as the Wolverine tables in a simpler way (well, at least I find it simpler - others may prefer the tables):

• Find your recent PB 2k session. (In the case of the OP, this will of course require some guesswork, since he is still waiting to be medically cleared for doing a real PB 2k.)

• Find the average Watts of that session.

• Divide this number by 32.

• The result is the energy per stroke - also called SPI - which you should use in training sessions. (The unit is WattMinutes per stroke.)

• When you want to train at a given stroke rate, multiply this stroke rate with the SPI. The result will be your target Watts for the session.

• Or when you want to train at given power in Watts, divide these Watts with the SPI. The result will be your stroke rate for the session.

Example:
My PB 2k is 7:34. My average power during the session was 239 Watt.
My training SPI is 239/32 = 7,5 WattMinutes/stroke.
So my usual training combinations of stroke rate and power are:

• 16 SPM / 120 Watt (because 16*7,5 = 120)

• 18 SPM / 135 Watt

• 20 SPM / 150 Watt

• 22 SPM / 165 Watt

• 24 SPM / 180 Watt

(*: "PB 2k time" is an simplification. There is a bit more to this in the Wolverine plan.)

[Dangerscouse]

However, now you mention it, maybe that is why sometimes I feel the effort drop away when I manage to rate up without losing form. I'm going to have to experiment more with that.

You're probably more suited to aerobic work considering your background so the higher rates will suit you more. 18-22 are more strength biased. I think it's important to train all ranges of rates e.g. I did a 12k at r17 on Monday, 12.5k at r21 today and the CTC interval session at an average of r32. They all have their benefits and they are all difficult in their own way.

I usually rate up when I'm getting tired as I have a bias towards higher rates