New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[ukaserex]

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I got 2 PRs this past weekend in the New Orleans Indoor Championship.

I confess, I only expected to do well in my age group (50-59) but despite the LSU rowing team being there, I surprised myself with a 6:38.4 on the 2k, and a 1:25.1 on the 500m.

The folks there were real nice - and I think it's unfair for me to simply say LSU rowing team. I'm pretty sure they must have all been novices/new rowers. Young men that are over 6 feet should have done much better than I did if they were in any kind of shape. If that sounds harsh, maybe I'm just unfamiliar with what the expected times should have been at the collegiate level?

Full results here: https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/ ... 1_9875.pdf

[Dangerscouse]

https://log.concept2.com/profile/113865 ... kmhtjkaQE0

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I got 2 PRs this past weekend in the New Orleans Indoor Championship.

I confess, I only expected to do well in my age group (50-59) but despite the LSU rowing team being there, I surprised myself with a 6:38.4 on the 2k, and a 1:25.1 on the 500m.

The folks there were real nice - and I think it's unfair for me to simply say LSU rowing team. I'm pretty sure they must have all been novices/new rowers. Young men that are over 6 feet should have done much better than I did if they were in any kind of shape. If that sounds harsh, maybe I'm just unfamiliar with what the expected times should have been at the collegiate level?

Full results here: https://www.regattacentral.com/regatta/ ... 1_9875.pdf

Great efforts mate, well done!! I do agree that the LSU team must be newbies. As good as your times are, young collegiate men should be a lot faster

[Gammmmo]

The folks there were real nice - and I think it's unfair for me to simply say LSU rowing team. I'm pretty sure they must have all been novices/new rowers. Young men that are over 6 feet should have done much better than I did if they were in any kind of shape. If that sounds harsh, maybe I'm just unfamiliar with what the expected times should have been at the collegiate level?

Well, I don't know the details but I'd be of the same opinion...

[Gammmmo]

Good work Paul, maybe do 100m reps? 10x 100 on 2 min. For stuff like this, maxspeed matters most, get that lower and you will be faster.

A tiny bit belated but would it not make more sense to extend the rest bits to 3mins+ so the ATP-PC system recharges each time?

From memory, 1 min is already enough to get 95% back. 2 min is pretty long. If you would go close to max, longer rest may be usefull. Possibly for pure sprinters also. Who can dig very deep.
Maybe try both?

Will do. So with this session presumably the emphasis is on stroke power at more or less the spm one might use in an all out 1min effort? What sort of DF? What sort of averages for 100m in relation to a max effort 1min average should one shoot for? I think I need to dig out Shawn's (Baker) Sprint thread again as I'm sure this is exactly the sort of session he'd do...

[hjs]

A tiny bit belated but would it not make more sense to extend the rest bits to 3mins+ so the ATP-PC system recharges each time?

From memory, 1 min is already enough to get 95% back. 2 min is pretty long. If you would go close to max, longer rest may be usefull. Possibly for pure sprinters also. Who can dig very deep.
Maybe try both?

Will do. So with this session presumably the emphasis is on stroke power at more or less the spm one might use in an all out 1min effort? What sort of DF? What sort of averages for 100m in relation to a max effort 1min average should one shoot for? I think I need to dig out Shawn's (Baker) Sprint thread again as I'm sure this is exactly the sort of session he'd do...

Shawn is a freak, backstrenght wise, nomatter what, he never got injured, he uses max drag often.

To mimic 1k 500m work, use the rate/speed/drag you would use during these. More about the feeling and good strokes than tye absolute pace, which is a lot about the start.
He also did a lot rate restricted 1 piece only only work. Which teaches you very much to do a certain distance. Also gets the tension off, its becomes normal

[Gammmmo]

From memory, 1 min is already enough to get 95% back. 2 min is pretty long. If you would go close to max, longer rest may be usefull. Possibly for pure sprinters also. Who can dig very deep.
Maybe try both?

Will do. So with this session presumably the emphasis is on stroke power at more or less the spm one might use in an all out 1min effort? What sort of DF? What sort of averages for 100m in relation to a max effort 1min average should one shoot for? I think I need to dig out Shawn's (Baker) Sprint thread again as I'm sure this is exactly the sort of session he'd do...

Shawn is a freak, backstrenght wise, nomatter what, he never got injured, he uses max drag often.

To mimic 1k 500m work, use the rate/speed/drag you would use during these. More about the feeling and good strokes than tye absolute pace, which is a lot about the start.
He also did a lot rate restricted 1 piece only only work. Which teaches you very much to do a certain distance. Also gets the tension off, its becomes normal

Sorry everyone about going OT - supposed to be about PBs I know this thread.

I just tried 10x100m (rest=1:40)@17.2s average (best one 17:0s) with DF=136 AVSPM=56 BEST_FIRST_PULL=1:56 LP=1:22 and all cold starts. So, it would seem I'd do better to reduce spm and not worry about a 500m average pace lower than my 1 min best?? It's a bizarre session, like you say very dependent on first few strokes but I noticed very little lactic build up or really getting out of breath. Felt much more like a neuro-muscular type session where the fatigue stemmed from a slight breakdown in cohesion/concentration. The intervals got faster until the half way point and then gradually slowed. I also noticed when cooling down at ~2:00/500m sort of pace it just felt very different - like the body was completely primed....a bit like when the CNS can be primed before say a deadlift.

[hjs]

Stuff like this is very much, alactic anaerobe, a bit like playing a ballgame, you do a lot, but never go all out, this system very rapidly recovers. Don,t be fooled, its a serious effort, you need recovery time.
Rating is a bit to high yes, a next time bring it down a bit, but stay carefull, easy to pull something.

[ukaserex]

Well, I got another PR. A supplement shop hosted a "Max Minute Meter" row challenge for $100 worth of supplements. (row as many meters in 1:00 as you can)

I got 370. But the odd thing is that the monitor showed 370. When I looked at the Ergdata app, the top line said 370, but the one underneath said 371.

It's still good; my previous PR was 355, so I'm happy. I'm just wondering why one screen showed 370 on the summary, but in memory it said 371. I wrote Concept2 for some insight, but figured I'd mention it, as it's the weekend and I won't get an answer until Tuesday, probably.

The real kicker is that the winner rowed 371. A 24 year old kid who's half a foot taller than me. Them's the brakes.

[hjs]

Well, I got another PR. A supplement shop hosted a "Max Minute Meter" row challenge for $100 worth of supplements. (row as many meters in 1:00 as you can)

I got 370. But the odd thing is that the monitor showed 370. When I looked at the Ergdata app, the top line said 370, but the one underneath said 371.

It's still good; my previous PR was 355, so I'm happy. I'm just wondering why one screen showed 370 on the summary, but in memory it said 371. I wrote Concept2 for some insight, but figured I'd mention it, as it's the weekend and I won't get an answer until Tuesday, probably.

The real kicker is that the winner rowed 371. A 24 year old kid who's half a foot taller than me. Them's the brakes.

Happens often. Still a very nice result, big pb congrats. You missed half a meter orso. It can also work the other way around sometimes. Maybe its the timing of the last stroke?

[vepjan]

The folks there were real nice - and I think it's unfair for me to simply say LSU rowing team. I'm pretty sure they must have all been novices/new rowers. Young men that are over 6 feet should have done much better than I did if they were in any kind of shape. If that sounds harsh, maybe I'm just unfamiliar with what the expected times should have been at the collegiate level?

Rowing at LSU is a club sport. 10 years ago there was no recruiting going on. I doubt that has changed. Rowing is not big there.

[ukaserex]

Happens often. Still a very nice result, big pb congrats. You missed half a meter orso. It can also work the other way around sometimes. Maybe its the timing of the last stroke?

I'm not sure. I do know there was a point about 20 seconds in, I was keeping a sub 1:20 pace, good enough to win. I opted to "relax" and creep up to 1:20, which in retrospect was a mistake. I just felt like I should focus on form, rather than speed, even if it was just a 1 minute piece. I think if I had just kept going full blast, and held on through the agony that set in at 50 seconds anyway, I might have done it.

Thanks for your reply.

[hjs]

Happens often. Still a very nice result, big pb congrats. You missed half a meter orso. It can also work the other way around sometimes. Maybe its the timing of the last stroke?

I'm not sure. I do know there was a point about 20 seconds in, I was keeping a sub 1:20 pace, good enough to win. I opted to "relax" and creep up to 1:20, which in retrospect was a mistake. I just felt like I should focus on form, rather than speed, even if it was just a 1 minute piece. I think if I had just kept going full blast, and held on through the agony that set in at 50 seconds anyway, I might have done it.

Thanks for your reply.

Bummer.. Maybe the other guy also have paced better. Most sprintpieces end with fade, if not we started nit agressive enough.

[KeithT]

Tied my 1K PB at 2:59.8...so why am I posting this?

So, in my mind I feel I did a PB even if the official results show otherwise and wanted to hear your opinions on this. I did a competition this past Saturday and I won my age group by like 35 seconds/162M but I wanted to try and break 3:00 again as this is the first time doing an all out 1K since I reached that milestone. I know there is something to the delay at the race start but this is the first time I really seemed to notice it and something just seemed off. I had a very specific plan and I executed it pretty good and know exactly what I was pulling but the numbers seemed wrong, let me explain:

My goal for the first 100M was 5 hard pulls and 5 to settle and I wanted the average to be just below 1:30 and I actually went harder than I planned (damn adrenaline) with most pulls in the mid 1:20s and others maybe 1:28, I do this and my average pace at 100M shows 1:30.8 - how is this possible? I have done many 1000M effort and even when not going as hard I know what my average should be. So, I stick with race plan and try to settle at 1:31 for next 300M and I do it pretty well if not a little quicker as I see some 1:30 pulls but my overall average doesn't really change. As planned I move to 1:30 flat between 600-300 to go and am seeing a decent amount of 1:28s/1:29s, average comes down but I am still a little above pace as I planned but I know have went faster...anyway I go harder with 300 to go and I am hurting but pull 1:28s pretty well from 300-100 to go and finally drive the average down to 1:29.8 and I hold on with everything I have in last 100M and fade just a touch and finish at 1:29.9 (2:59.8). So, I match my PB and I am happy though in absolute misery for quite some time after. But .... I KNOW this was a faster row than my other PB and the monitor showed me it should of been. So, just how much impact can the race start delay have? Or am I just fooling myself that I did better?

[ukaserex]

Bummer.. Maybe the other guy also have paced better. Most sprintpieces end with fade, if not we started nit agressive enough.

So, your suggesting that if I don't fade a little bit at the end of a sprint, I didn't go hard enough? I will take some comfort in knowing that I definitely had my pace creeping upward to 1:23-1:25 in the last 15 seconds, but I thought in my head that the 1:18 - 1:20 for the first 20 seconds would have been enough to offset it, but apparently not. Just wish I had been slightly better at recovering my wind, because I could have tried again. But, I just didn't have enough left in the tank.

I know from 2k strategies, there are a couple of ways to plan out a race. Option 1, you know your pace, and you get to that pace as quickly as you can, and just maintain it until the 2k is complete. Option 2, you go faster than your 2k pace for the first 2-300 meters, then settle into your pace, and at 750 left, you gradually increase your pace, and with 250 left, you sprint as fast as you can to finish it. The advantage is that there's less time in the brutally painful time, but it does cost you a few seconds in efficiency.

So crazy how a minute seems so very long on the rower during a sprint, but not nearly long enough when you're doing something pleasurable.

[hjs]

Bummer.. Maybe the other guy also have paced better. Most sprintpieces end with fade, if not we started nit agressive enough.

So, your suggesting that if I don't fade a little bit at the end of a sprint, I didn't go hard enough? I will take some comfort in knowing that I definitely had my pace creeping upward to 1:23-1:25 in the last 15 seconds, but I thought in my head that the 1:18 - 1:20 for the first 20 seconds would have been enough to offset it, but apparently not. Just wish I had been slightly better at recovering my wind, because I could have tried again. But, I just didn't have enough left in the tank.

I know from 2k strategies, there are a couple of ways to plan out a race. Option 1, you know your pace, and you get to that pace as quickly as you can, and just maintain it until the 2k is complete. Option 2, you go faster than your 2k pace for the first 2-300 meters, then settle into your pace, and at 750 left, you gradually increase your pace, and with 250 left, you sprint as fast as you can to finish it. The advantage is that there's less time in the brutally painful time, but it does cost you a few seconds in efficiency.

So crazy how a minute seems so very long on the rower during a sprint, but not nearly long enough when you're doing something pleasurable.

Yes, you fully need to build lactic, and this means you can,t get around some fade. Look at a 400/800 track, everybody fades. Trackcycling, speedskating. Key is, the fade should come late, to soon and you pay, to late you had extra energy left.