Strength Training for rowing / erging and health

[G-dub]

There has been some interesting threads about weight training lately and I’m thinking maybe a dedicated thread will make it a robust conversation...

Question: when does weight training go beyond what is beneficial to rowing / erging performance? Is there a method of training that is best suited? I’ve been doing a progressive strength training program of squats, trap bar dead’s, presses and some rows. When is enough enough? Would more power oriented work be better? What would be considered a “program minimum” for rowers / ergers?

[hjs]

Depends a lot about the distances you target, think 2k and above strenght is seldom the limiting factor, shorter is matters a lot, for 100m you can never be strong enough.

Weights and health in general, bit like rowing, no need to go super heavy or anything, just like racing is not needed in rowing.

[T_M]

Addressing more of the “health” part of the title, my training is a bit bi-polar…I’m either doing 60 minute steady state rows or lifting heavy. I’m not particularly interested in erg racing per se…I’m going after good cardio-vascular fitness AND building strength and muscle mass via heavy compound movements. Every once in a while, I will test my 100m to see how my lifting translates into short sprints. My typical split is to row 2 days, lift 1 day.

[mdpfirrman]

I honestly think some body weight pushups and some shoulder work on top of the rowing is absolute minimum.

I'm trying to simplify my life right now, so I've been limiting posting, been working hard and trying to workout smarter. I'm really working on keeping my rowing work to four easy, longish SS a week (with some AirDyne Bike mixed in). One AT type of day and one short sprint day. I was alternating legs and upper body but I think it's easier for me to do just two days (on the hard rowing days) a full body workout -- light stuff. Pushups, military presses, pull ups on the upper and squats, light deadlifts, bridges, some plyo box work or stairs on the legs for a full body day on the hard rowing days.

[Mark E]

When the question is "What's optimal for rowing performance?" I tend to look at what national teams and top university programs do, which is often pretty easy to find online. Of course, most of us here won't really find those schedules optimal without some significant adjustments to account for age, time constraints and limitations in our natural abilities ... but it's pretty easy to deduce that most protocols for top rowers these days do involve regular strength training sessions, with movements and repetition schemes that are somewhat predictable. My sense is that most of these programs try to include as much strength training as possible without significantly diminishing energy reserves for on-water training (or causing injuries).

The question of what's best for general health seems pretty far removed. Arguably, the best health protocol might be to row at moderate internsity a few times a week for 30 minutes or so per session, and to take an equally restrained approach to strength training with something like circuit training on machines a few times a week. Not much intensity, but not much chance of injury either.

Moderation in all things is a nice sentiment and usually the prudent choice. But rowing tends to take us in the direction advised by William Blake:

“The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.”

[zen cohen]

But rowing tends to take us in the direction advised by William Blake:

“The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough.”

I haven't heard Wm Blake quoted since college but I think this one is proof he had a C2!

(I'm guessing an early Model A with a steam-powered PM0)

[G-dub]

To me the minimum includes squatting, pulling, hinging, pressing. I also like hanging. Some say weighted carries. How you do them is up to you. It can be easy, maintenance or it can lead to strength gains. I think doing progressive strength gain work has to be done in a prescribed window of time (say 8 weeks?). All of this was gotten from someone else. I’m not a big hypertrophy guy, as I have always been bashful about my stockiness. But I do like the idea of big strong legs. I’m scared of getting hurt at the moment - hips, back, shoulders. I’ve got two week left to close the window on strength program I’m on and I think I will stick on a number, or move them up as they feel right, or do heavy / light and maybe insert something that builds more power such as high pulls, jumping dead’s with the trap bar, weighted box jumps or etc. Maybe I’ll learn the power clean.

[Mark E]

Glenn, you're inspiring me to change my routine -- I've been doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results!

I think I'll shift gears by lightening up the weights (okay, they're already pretty light) and focus on explosiveness and range of motion.

For example, deadlifts while standing on plates. I tried this when I was lifting very light weights in an adaptation phase. Despite the low weight it left me really sore ... but I'm much stronger on this lift now and have been doing low reps for several months (usually 6-4-2, 3-3-3 or some similar set scheme). Maybe shift to 5 X 5 reps?

Same with back squats. I go a bit below parallel but haven't really gotten into a full squat position for weeks.

My concern is that I can't afford to gain any weight! I've edged back toward 170 in the past 2 weeks and there are only 6 weeks until I hope to weigh in as a lightweight for a 2K erg competition. It's time to really dial in on the nutrition. I'm going to do some controlled fasting like the 14 hours fast 10 hours eating window scheme, and a few longer fasts. Used to do this kind of thing as a lightweight -- before it was a thing.

Any lifting/eating advice would be welcome!

[mitchel674]

An interesting threat that dovetails nicely with my thread from a few weeks ago.

I've now added two days a week of strength training to my rowing regimen. I do an easy 30 minute row as a warm up on those days so I am still able to get my fix on the rower 4-5 days each week. I have no illusions that the strength training will do much for my rowing. I am doing this for my overall health and fitness. Plus my wife is impressed with the upper body muscular changes even after just 4 weeks.

Unfortunately, it seems I've hurt my back doing deadlifts this week. Significant sciatic pain radiating down the back of my right leg has me concerned. I'm resting now, but I'm very concerned. I had no injuries since I started seriously rowing one year ago.

[KeithT]

My background is in weightlifting and then weightlifting and CF. I am definitely a proponent of weight resistance exercise and I still do some but I don't think it has much impact on the Erg unless you really are lacking in strength. Then, I really caution people about heavy weights (max lifts) as I have seen (and had some myself) way too many injuries. I completely tore my pectoral muscle a couple years ago and it was a miserable surgery and recovery process - I did it bench pressing and while I wasn't at max weight yet I was working my way up. Since then, I always think what was the point, at my age, does it really matter how much I bench press? So, I recommend lifting and for rowing I think you really want to work on stuff like DLs and squats but aim to make gains in how much weight you can do for like 8 reps or something. I still do upper-body work too but I never max out on a bench press and such any longer and I still have the same muscle mass and look.

[blues_]

...Unfortunately, it seems I've hurt my back doing deadlifts this week. Significant sciatic pain radiating down the back of my right leg has me concerned. I'm resting now, but I'm very concerned. I had no injuries since I started seriously rowing one year ago.

Your form may be the cause but of course this is merely speculation. When you recover, consider investing in and performing your deadlifts with a trap (hex, shrug) bar. There are many benefits to using one of these bars, including getting more quad activation and the ability to align the bar ends with the ankles, instead of in front of your tibia.

I agree with those who would recommend checking the training routines of competitive rowers, (olympic, collegiate etc) to get ideas on strength training for rowing specifically.

I train similarly to T_M as I am only interested in rowing to increase my cardio health and capability, and strength training to, well, increase strength...especially on deadlifts which I feel provide the greatest overall benefit. (I also concentrate on upper body pressing movements, standing and bench, as well as chins / rowing.)

[G-dub]

Mark - someone challenged my training program the other day and asked “why are you doing all that slow grind stuff when a) you maybe don’t need to be that much stronger and b) you are not training the thing that would be more similar, which is fast explosive. Made me think....

It’s probable that both are good and strength adds to power. But the point that we need to train our nervous system for the type of effort we are asking of it in our sport makes total sense

[mitchel674]

Mark - someone challenged my training program the other day and asked “why are you doing all that slow grind stuff when a) you maybe don’t need to be that much stronger and b) you are not training the thing that would be more similar, which is fast explosive. Made me think....

It’s probable that both are good and strength adds to power. But the point that we need to train our nervous system for the type of effort we are asking of it in our sport makes total sense

True, but don't you want to improve your aerobic fitness? Obviously, we have to consider our goals, but when we think of overall health, aerobic training is beneficial for our cardiovascular system. I've been very pleased with the improvement in my overall stamina since I started rowing last year. I think this comes from all of those long, slow rows I have done.

[G-dub]

Absolutely Mitchell. As is said, rowing is an endurance sport and an aerobic engine is essential. There is no getting around putting in the meters. I was referring to weight training and making it more specific - fast explosive instead of heavy slow grind

[Dangerscouse]

My background is in weightlifting and then weightlifting and CF. I am definitely a proponent of weight resistance exercise and I still do some but I don't think it has much impact on the Erg unless you really are lacking in strength. Then, I really caution people about heavy weights (max lifts) as I have seen (and had some myself) way too many injuries. I completely tore my pectoral muscle a couple years ago and it was a miserable surgery and recovery process - I did it bench pressing and while I wasn't at max weight yet I was working my way up. Since then, I always think what was the point, at my age, does it really matter how much I bench press? So, I recommend lifting and for rowing I think you really want to work on stuff like DLs and squats but aim to make gains in how much weight you can do for like 8 reps or something. I still do upper-body work too but I never max out on a bench press and such any longer and I still have the same muscle mass and look.

I'm with Keith on this one. In years gone by I have done weight training but I haven't squatted or deadlifted for years due to a dodgy back. I have started doing some split leg squats and deads recently but I don't think any weight training has made any notable difference, other than possibly to help with muscle balance due to the dominance of pulling in rowing.

I'm far from weak, but I'm also not massive, but obviously i'm not sure if I could be going faster if I had squatted and deadlifted.