Best intervals session for a sub 20m 5k?

[hjs]

I did another interval session yesterday, and attempted to do 4*1500m, at goal pace of 1:59.9, rate 30; and 2:00m recovery... I was toying with a longer recovery, but figured I would see how it felt at a ratio of 3:1 (6m effort, 2m easy)

Family life got in the way and I was interrupted, so ended up only doing 3 intervals. However, by the end of the 3rd rep I was up at 168hr, and suspect I would have seriously struggled to hold that pace and rating for a fourth one. Suspect next time I will try 2:1...

Today will be a nice lazy 21097m at below 152bpm!

You really need longer rest, the whole point is going hard enough so you need that rest. And for sub 2.00 those reps should be below 2.00 a few seconds. And not 3 but 5. If you do less, they need to be faster even.

[Allan Olesen]

Today will be a nice lazy 21097m at below 152bpm!

I of course do not know your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds, but I am not sure that the aforementioned dr. Seiler would consider 152 BPM lazy enough.

[jamesg]

You can do a 5k at 28 in 20 minutes (203W), if you learn to pull a 7.5W stroke (W/Rating). You're not far off, but it has to be done, no matter in what combination, rating or distance.

As a test, try some 30'/20 or similar low rate work at about 150W, concentrating on the stroke itself. This may involve learning to row all over again, which has it's benefits since there are greater power losses at higher ratings.

Key technique points are catch posture, drag, foot height and sequences for recovery and pull, as to the C2 video.

[JonWalters]

Today will be a nice lazy 21097m at below 152bpm!

I of course do not know your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds, but I am not sure that the aforementioned dr. Seiler would consider 152 BPM lazy enough.

Fair comment - and I suspect you are right.

152bpm for me is roughly 75% of my heart rate reserve, and feels to me to be a decent approximation of the upper end of “easy” aerobic effort. It’s also the case that if I set that as the max I’m willing to see at the end of a LSR (run or row), then the average typically comes out closer to 140bpm...

[JonWalters]

You can do a 5k at 28 in 20 minutes (203W), if you learn to pull a 7.5W stroke (W/Rating). You're not far off, but it has to be done, no matter in what combination, rating or distance.

As a test, try some 30'/20 or similar low rate work at about 150W, concentrating on the stroke itself. This may involve learning to row all over again, which has it's benefits since there are greater power losses at higher ratings.

Key technique points are catch posture, drag, foot height and sequences for recovery and pull, as to the C2 video.

Thanks James - since I started rowing a bit more on the erg I haven’t really focussed on Watts or watts/stroke, but this morning I did a 30’/20 session focussing on technique and set the PM to show me Watts.

I was experimenting a bit to see how different levels of effort felt, but average over the 30 min was 167 Watts. Splits were:

6m 176W
12m 161W
18m 158W
24m 164W
30m 175W

Drag factor was 128.

[Allan Olesen]

152bpm for me is roughly 75% of my heart rate reserve, and feels to me to be a decent approximation of the upper end of “easy” aerobic effort.

That percentage doesn't sound right. Are there recommendations for rowing saying that?

I have seen recommendations of an upper limit 75% af Max HR, and that is lower than 75% af HRR.

Anyway, can you comfortably breathe through your nose when working at 152 BPM? If you can't, you are above your aerobic threshold.

You should also note that an untrained person has his aerobic threshold at a lower heart rate than a trained person.

[jacket]

Hi Jon
thanks for starting this thread. I'm currently following "The Pete Plan" for 5k, https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/5k-training/ and hope by the end of it to be under the 20 minute mark. I'm not sure what my pace was before I started but 3 years ago I managed 19:24 and think I should be able to get close to the 19:30 mark this time. If you check out the link to the PP I started by doing the 3 times a week option but, after 3-4 weeks, added in a longer distance at the slower rate so now try and do 4 sessions/week. The PP gives me a bit of structure and because it increases the difficulty I can see if I am getting better. I've been a bit side tracked over the last week but will get back to it this week, my next session will be 5 x 1000m with 1 minute rests. The last time I did this session, 4 weeks ago, my average split was 1:57.6. I tend to start slightly easier then gradually increase, my first 1km was at 1:58.8 (24spm) and the 5th was at 1:54.7 (29spm). It will be interesting to see how you progress so keep posting and let us know what plan, if any, you decide to follow.
Regards.
jp

[JonWalters]

Thanks JP - I will have a read of the Pete Plan for 5k.

I’m not sure I’m going to follow a strict plan per se, and I feel as though I’m pretty close to being able to squeeze under the 20 min mark... I will however keep doing some intervals for a few more weeks and will post on here anything of interest, etc...

Tomorrow’s session du jour is going to be 6* 1250m, with 5m recovery. This should be 5 mins on, 5 mins off, so a good hour’s workout.

[JonWalters]

Have just finished today’s interval session, which ended up being 5* 1250m; with 5m recovery.

Splits were

1st 1250m 1:58.2 SR26 (HR149)
2nd 1250m 1:58.3 SR25 (HR159)
3rd 1250m 1:58.9 SR25 (HR163)
4th 1250m 1:59.0 SR26 (HR165)
5th 1250m 1:59.1 SR27 (HR168)

I had intended to do 6, and am mildly annoyed I didn’t push on through the last interval, but overall am satisfied it’s still a decent session...

[JonWalters]

Really satisfied with today’s session. 7*1000m; 2:00r

Splits were as follows

1000m 3:57.9 (1:58.9) 30s/m 149hr
1000m 3:57.3 (1:58.6) 28s/m 159hr
1000m 3:57.8 (1:58.9) 29s/m 164hr
1000m 3:57.2 (1:58.6) 29s/m 164hr
1000m 3:57.4 (1:58.7) 29s/m 167hr
1000m 3:57.1 (1:58.5) 29s/m 169hr
1000m 3:52.5 (1:56.2) 30s/m 171hr

Am glad I decided to go with 2:00 recovery as I reckon 1:00 would have been too short and seriously hard work...

[johnlvs2run]

Am glad I decided to go with 2:00 recovery as I reckon 1:00 would have been too short and seriously hard work.

This thread has helped me to think about recoveries more, and I agree with this.
My rowerg 5k pace was only 2.4 percent slower than my 2k pace. Yours is 4 percent, and Nick's was 6 percent.
Doing 1k's at 5k pace is very close to top speed for me, and thus to gain speed, it is better for me to have more rest between.
Conversely, I did a half marathon at 2k pace plus 6 percent, so doing reps at 6 percent slower with 1' rests would be extremely easy for me.

Currently on the skierg, my two 10k pb's have been faster than my sessions of 10x1k with 2 minute rests, as I am even closer
to top speed on the skierg than I was on the rowing machine. However, though those sessions did feel about right for the 10k, they
were too long, too slow, and/or had too little rest for the 5k. The session that worked well for me was 10x 500 with 1 minute recoveries,
which turned out to be about right. However, next time I might increase it to 70 second recoveries, to allow for a little more speed to go faster.

[JonWalters]

Thanks John,

I’m definitely still learning and experimenting with what pace I ought to be aiming for, and what recovery ratio to use.

I knew I definitely wanted to do seven reps today, and that this was more important to me than risking a HD if I tried to stick wih a 1:00 recovery or shaving a second or two off the split. So my plan from the start was sub 1:59; for the first 6; and then a bit quicker for the last one.

The really pleasing thing was that it felt like I was pacing myself for the first 6, and there was plenty left for the last one. So over all, a plan executed!

p.s. it’s also made me think my 2k PB may be a bit soft?

[hjs]

Thanks John,

I’m definitely still learning and experimenting with what pace I ought to be aiming for, and what recovery ratio to use.

I knew I definitely wanted to do seven reps today, and that this was more important to me than risking a HD if I tried to stick wih a 1:00 recovery or shaving a second or two off the split. So my plan from the start was sub 1:59; for the first 6; and then a bit quicker for the last one.

The really pleasing thing was that it felt like I was pacing myself for the first 6, and there was plenty left for the last one. So over all, a plan executed!

p.s. it’s also made me think my 2k PB may be a bit soft?

An "average" difference between 2/5k is roughly 6 seconds in pace. If you haven,t done much faster work it could certainly help. It can make you stronger. 500m reps on 1 min rest are roughly 2k pace. On longer rest a good bit faster. Talking about 8 reps.
250 reps again on 1 min are roughly 1k pace, but you can do more, think 12 reps.

Shorter reps alone often don,t work well for 5k, you need to keep on doing longer pieces.

[JonWalters]

An "average" difference between 2/5k is roughly 6 seconds in pace. If you haven,t done much faster work it could certainly help. It can make you stronger. 500m reps on 1 min rest are roughly 2k pace. On longer rest a good bit faster. Talking about 8 reps.
250 reps again on 1 min are roughly 1k pace, but you can do more, think 12 reps.

Shorter reps alone often don,t work well for 5k, you need to keep on doing longer pieces.

Thanks - I currently have just under 5 seconds between my 2k (1:57.6) and 5k (2:02.4) split, so if I’m close to being able to get my 5k split to be under 2:00, that means I may be able to get close to 7:40 for a 2k...

[hjs]

An "average" difference between 2/5k is roughly 6 seconds in pace. If you haven,t done much faster work it could certainly help. It can make you stronger. 500m reps on 1 min rest are roughly 2k pace. On longer rest a good bit faster. Talking about 8 reps.
250 reps again on 1 min are roughly 1k pace, but you can do more, think 12 reps.

Shorter reps alone often don,t work well for 5k, you need to keep on doing longer pieces.

Thanks - I currently have just under 5 seconds between my 2k (1:57.6) and 5k (2:02.4) split, so if I’m close to being able to get my 5k split to be under 2:00, that means I may be able to get close to 7:40 for a 2k...

Indeed. You certainly get there. Erging is a lot about putting the effort in, if you get a good training period in, you will get those marks and more.