Train hard and less or easier and more?

[bob01]

Don't think anyone mentioned sprinting! Keeping form was though. Sprinting to my mind is a different stroke

Power!

20spm was an example ... Something my aging brain could grasp...don't see how high

[iant187]

Sprinting on the erg is often 60 spm....

60spm!!! Woahhhh... Don't think I've ever span the erg that quick! Is that half slide?
Pretty sure anything over 40spm would start to fall apart for me...

[iant187]

NB Despite what I started saying about not liking HIT, I'm going to try a plan of:

2 sessions HIT
1 session Tempo
2 sessions UT1
4 sessions UT2

This is pretty much what I did last week (although only 3 sessions UT2) but it felt pretty good.

[hjs]

Sprinting on the erg is often 60 spm....

60spm!!! Woahhhh... Don't think I've ever span the erg that quick! Is that half slide?
Pretty sure anything over 40spm would start to fall apart for me...

Yes thats half slide, some fast rowers even row 40 over a 2k. But those numbers are the upper end. 40 is certainly to low for pure sprinting though.

[Remo]

Sprinting on the erg is often 60 spm....

60spm!!! Woahhhh... Don't think I've ever span the erg that quick! Is that half slide?
Pretty sure anything over 40spm would start to fall apart for me...

Yes thats half slide, some fast rowers even row 40 over a 2k. But those numbers are the upper end. 40 is certainly to low for pure sprinting though.

A little corroboration. Henrick Stephansen sets the 2k record for lightweights going off at a 60 and settling down to row an average 40 spm for the race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDO1dMM8HJk . The guy next to him Stephen Bonde was a little slower off the line, but averaged 42 spm for the race.

[iant187]

A little corroboration. Henrick Stephansen sets the 2k record for lightweights going off at a 60 and settling down to row an average 40 spm for the race.

Damn!!! That is a quick pace!!!
And there's me wondeirng if I go out the blocks too quick

[iain]

Thanks for all the interesting thoughts above. 2 things I would like to hear people's thoughts / experience on:

1) Most rowing plans have HI intervals done with long rest periods compared with other sports. While some say they prefer shortening these, if there is validity to this, how should it affect the frequency with which these are done? My only thoughts are that the intensity of the power stroke and proportion of the large muscle groups used mean that more lactate is produced even if much of this is broken down during the high work segment recovery.

2) How does age effect the optimum sessions? Most of the studies are on younger athletes. i know that my body recovers slower now than it did when at a similar fitness in the past. Not sure whether the answer is lowering the proportion of HI sessions or lowering the number of sessions over all.

Look forward to your thoughts.

[iant187]

2) How does age effect the optimum sessions? Most of the studies are on younger athletes. i know that my body recovers slower now than it did when at a similar fitness in the past. Not sure whether the answer is lowering the proportion of HI sessions or lowering the number of sessions over all.

Hi Iain, I had this question myself a little while ago, although I suspect the opposite may be true. A friend read a book aimed at elite training for over 50's (cycling) and he was saying because you are losing muscle at that age, you basically needed to up your HIT type work, plus maybe a bit more rest and rely on the endurance from the previous years. Saying all that I think it was fairly marginal IE the balance didn't shift by much and you weren't taking an extra day rest or anything.

At the end of the day, I'm not being too rigid to any plan and I'm listening to my body more than anything. I'm trying to get lots of miles in and attempting (badly) at getting 3 of the Pete Plan sessions in the week, but if I'm not feeling recovered, I will do an easy SS instead or even rest altogether if I think I've overdone it.

[lindsayh]

1) Most rowing plans have HI intervals done with long rest periods compared with other sports. While some say they prefer shortening these, if there is validity to this, how should it affect the frequency with which these are done? My only thoughts are that the intensity of the power stroke and proportion of the large muscle groups used mean that more lactate is produced even if much of this is broken down during the high work segment recovery.
2) How does age effect the optimum sessions? Most of the studies are on younger athletes. i know that my body recovers slower now than it did when at a similar fitness in the past. Not sure whether the answer is lowering the proportion of HI sessions or lowering the number of sessions over all.
Look forward to your thoughts.

just my thoughts of course:
1) My understanding is that you can vary the interval/rest ratios depending on what stage of training and what goals are. There is some discussion about it all in the ISS training guide. Longer rests allow greater recovery of course so will test physiology differently than intense ones. As Jon Bone has pointed out on other recent threads all intervals are different and you don't have to do them all at 100% and stroke rates are variable too. I do a lot of intervals of many different lengths and intensity - 30"/30" then 1/2/3/4min active and similar rests 1x to 2x active. Some at sr20 through to 30sr.
Intervals give you an opportunity to go under sub2k pace for extended periods - say 20x 1'/1''R.
2) I strongly believe that as we age we should go harder not softer to overcome the natural slowing of ageing. A lot of the slowing I reckon is related to us backing off intensity and sessions. I have deliberately not slowed down and 20 years older than you - still 50k+ a week 5/6 sessions usually and really intense intervals are a good part of it - MHR up to 98% of max. Don't back off IMO. FWIW my 2k PB was 3 years ago.

[iain]

Many thanks for the thoughts. I try to maintain intensity of the hardest sessions, it is just that this takes it out of me and I find that I have not succeeded in maintaining 3 truly hard sessions a week. From what you are saying I take it that it would be better to do 2 hard sessions a week than compromise the intensity of 3.

[hobbit]

A little corroboration. Henrick Stephansen sets the 2k record for lightweights going off at a 60 and settling down to row an average 40 spm for the race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDO1dMM8HJk . The guy next to him Stephen Bonde was a little slower off the line, but averaged 42 spm for the race.

Wow! This was a game changer for me. And we thought that Rod was a high spm rower . I'm definitely going to try these high stroke rates. I'm just wondering how many r20 sessions you should do if your aim is to race/TT at r40+. The action is very different and specificity is king.

[hjs]

A little corroboration. Henrick Stephansen sets the 2k record for lightweights going off at a 60 and settling down to row an average 40 spm for the race. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDO1dMM8HJk . The guy next to him Stephen Bonde was a little slower off the line, but averaged 42 spm for the race.

Wow! This was a game changer for me. And we thought that Rod was a high spm rower . I'm definitely going to try these high stroke rates. I'm just wondering how many r20 sessions you should do if your aim is to race/TT at r40+. The action is very different and specificity is king.

Longer work in training is still a lot lower rate. Although the danes train a bit lower volume and higher intensity. Stephanson pulled 18k on the 60m and also is good on the bike. Danes also only have top lightweights strangly enough