Normal two month novice improvement?

[Lucasium]

I'm training to try for my uni's novice team in about a month now. Two months ago I started at 2:19 for 10k every other day, my body was aching all the time and this was max effort. I can now do 2:16 for 13k six days a week, pretty much steady state without much ache afterwards.
So my question is wondering if there is any significant difference here? I would have thought I'd improved more by now. 6'0 84kg 20 yo male previously not done much cardio for a few years. What should I be doing to get better quicker?

[mitchel674]

Are you doing any interval training at all? Sounds like you are just doing long steady state rows at relatively low wattage. This might build up your aerobic base, but you should be adding some high intensity intervals to build up your speed and power. At 20 years old and 6ft, you should be working on strengthening your stroke. Perhaps pay more attention to your form and the force curve on the PM monitor.

Have you considered trying an organized plan like the Pete Plan? Have you tried a 2k time trial yet?

[lancecampeau]

You need to start doing some harder meters... interval training is the next step for sure.

Try this set... 6 x 750m with 3 mins of rest in between each interval.

Based your your current ability to do 13K @ 2:16, I suggest that a pace of 2:08 to 2:10 for this interval session is a good target. Keep the drag factor around 115 to 130, the stroke rate around 24 to 26. That should give you a solid workout.

Its also good to review rowing technique from time to time, so watch this video from Concept2.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ82RYIFLN8

I watch it every once in a while to help avoid the formation of bad rowing habits...

[jamesg]

What should I be doing to get better quicker?

You probably need to learn to row.

Your basic speed seems to be very low, though you do not state your rating in the 13k. This in itself suggests you do not yet know what rowing is and how it's done. To find out, go afloat, even in a tub single.

For now, on the erg, aim for 200 Watts at 20, with a style that makes it easy. The key is to use all the muscle we have in a long stroke.

200W at 20 is ratio 10; this is a measure of stroke quality. You'll need to reach 15, which implies a very long and very hard stroke and you will only be able to acquire that stroke with lots of hard work at low ratings.

Avoid high ratings: you may see extra power, but this is only because you reduce the rest time, not because your stroke was better.

[Gammmmo]

Yeah something is a bit off considering your height/weight/age...technique probably. Post up a video.

[Ombrax]

Lucas, as the others have said above, there's a lot more to do than just long, slow, distance rowing.

If you need some ideas check out the C2 "workout of the day" here: https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/wod

You also need to be doing shorter, harder, faster rowing. That will hopefully get your rowing at a significantly faster pace (2:00 / 500m and better).

If you want to get a feel for how fast folks are rowing, check out the C2 log rankings here: https://log.concept2.com/rankings
(this is skewed to pretty fast people, so don't get too disappointed when you see the super-fast times)

Good Luck

[jimmyshand]

Hi Lucasium - the good news is I think you can probably make some significant improvements relatively quickly if you take a systematic approach to this.

If I were you I'd consider the following:

1. Is your technique any good? If you're a novice, chances are it can be improved. Posting a video on here for critique, or even just comparing it to the Concept2 one online is a very good starting point. This could be the single biggest thing holding you back.

2. What drag factor are you rowing at? The damper on the side of the machine is the way to set the drag factor but you really should read a little about this and definitely make sure the damper isn't pushed all the way to 10. Here's how to check it:

To view drag factor on the PM:

On the Main Menu, select More Options.
Select Display Drag Factor.
Begin rowing. The PM will display the drag factor after a few seconds.

3. Just take on board what people on here say. Lots of experts here.

I'd say if you do these things then big improvements are possible. With your height and weight (and age) you can definitely be going a lot faster.

[Allan Olesen]

In the running world there is a saying:
"Most people's fasts are too slow, and their slows are too fast."

Meaning that they place their training intensity in a grey zone which is too hard for optimal endurance training and too easy for optimal speed training, so they end up training neither.

To me, it sounds like you have placed yourself in that zone:

"Slows too fast":
You should not be aching after a long, slow training session. Actually, with Mike Caviston's words, you should feel hungry for more, feeling that you could have done better if you had allowed yourself to it.

"Fasts too slow":
Well, your fast training sessions seem to be entirely missing.

So I would say:
1. Keep your long, slow training pieces, but make them a bit slower, perhaps 5-10 seconds/500m. Instead, during those pieces, work on getting your stroke rate down, so you get more energy into each stroke. The 20 strokes per minute mentioned by others would be a good target. After a few weeks of this, you will probably feel an urge to go to a faster pace again, because your stroke quality has increased so much that it will be much easier to maintain pace.

2. Add some speed/interval sessions in between those long, slow sessions.

3. Follow a recognized training plan. One where your actual, current top performance, for example from a 2k test, is used to plan the intensities of the training sessions. (Of course, if you follow a training plan, you should skip my step 1 and 2, because the plan will have much better steps to replace them...)

Disclaimer: I sat down in a Concept2 for the first time 10 months ago so you shouldn't listen too much to me. But I have improved vastly in those 10 months. I am 51 years old and went from being in bad shape to now doing long, easy (and to me, they ARE easy) sessions of the same duration and pace as the ones you are currently struggling with. So at your age, you should be able to improve a lot, fast.

[Dangerscouse]

In the running world there is a saying:
"Most people's fasts are too slow, and their slows are too fast."

Meaning that they place their training intensity in a grey zone which is too hard for optimal endurance training and too easy for optimal speed training, so they end up training neither.

To me, it sounds like you have placed yourself in that zone:

"Slows too fast":
You should not be aching after a long, slow training session. Actually, with Mike Caviston's words, you should feel hungry for more, feeling that you could have done better if you had allowed yourself to it.

"Fasts too slow":
Well, your fast training sessions seem to be entirely missing.

So I would say:
1. Keep your long, slow training pieces, but make them a bit slower, perhaps 5-10 seconds/500m. Instead, during those pieces, work on getting your stroke rate down, so you get more energy into each stroke. The 20 strokes per minute mentioned by others would be a good target. After a few weeks of this, you will probably feel an urge to go to a faster pace again, because your stroke quality has increased so much that it will be much easier to maintain pace.

2. Add some speed/interval sessions in between those long, slow sessions.

3. Follow a recognized training plan. One where your actual, current top performance, for example from a 2k test, is used to plan the intensities of the training sessions. (Of course, if you follow a training plan, you should skip my step 1 and 2, because the plan will have much better steps to replace them...)

Disclaimer: I sat down in a Concept2 for the first time 10 months ago so you shouldn't listen too much to me. But I have improved vastly in those 10 months. I am 51 years old and went from being in bad shape to now doing long, easy (and to me, they ARE easy) sessions of the same duration and pace as the ones you are currently struggling with. So at your age, you should be able to improve a lot, fast.

Wise words Allan, and they are all relevant and useful.

[Lucasium]

In the running world there is a saying:
"Most people's fasts are too slow, and their slows are too fast."

Meaning that they place their training intensity in a grey zone which is too hard for optimal endurance training and too easy for optimal speed training, so they end up training neither.

To me, it sounds like you have placed yourself in that zone:

"Slows too fast":
You should not be aching after a long, slow training session. Actually, with Mike Caviston's words, you should feel hungry for more, feeling that you could have done better if you had allowed yourself to it.

"Fasts too slow":
Well, your fast training sessions seem to be entirely missing.

So I would say:
1. Keep your long, slow training pieces, but make them a bit slower, perhaps 5-10 seconds/500m. Instead, during those pieces, work on getting your stroke rate down, so you get more energy into each stroke. The 20 strokes per minute mentioned by others would be a good target. After a few weeks of this, you will probably feel an urge to go to a faster pace again, because your stroke quality has increased so much that it will be much easier to maintain pace.

2. Add some speed/interval sessions in between those long, slow sessions.

3. Follow a recognized training plan. One where your actual, current top performance, for example from a 2k test, is used to plan the intensities of the training sessions. (Of course, if you follow a training plan, you should skip my step 1 and 2, because the plan will have much better steps to replace them...)

Disclaimer: I sat down in a Concept2 for the first time 10 months ago so you shouldn't listen too much to me. But I have improved vastly in those 10 months. I am 51 years old and went from being in bad shape to now doing long, easy (and to me, they ARE easy) sessions of the same duration and pace as the ones you are currently struggling with. So at your age, you should be able to improve a lot, fast.

Thanks yeah this has been good advice, I tried a 6 x 500 a couple weeks ago but started out too fast and failed. I did another set of 6 x 500s at 1:49 at 28 spm ave, I believe I should be at a much higher rate but the same split felt far more difficult if I rated any higher. So going forward I'll add more intervals

[mitchel674]

I'll ask again. Have you tried a 2k time trial?

This will likely be one of the benchmarks used to gauge your placement on your Uni's novice team. You should know your 2k time.

[mitchel674]

Actually, you were given some good advice back in July. Follow any of it?

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