Pete Plan Thread

[RayOfSunshine]

Today's workout - 3 X 2K/3'. At first glance, this looks similar to the PP 4 X 2K but one less rep. It's different. The instructions tell you to do your 1st and last rep at slower SS pace and then go hard (around 90% in the middle), hopefully with some sort of pacing plan on the middle rep.

2000 / 8:56.5 / 2:14.1 / 22 (slow SS pace)

2000 / 7:35.6 / 1:53.9 / 27 (90% of 2K best effort)

2000 / 8:55.6 / 2:13.9 / 22 (basically CD)

Felt pretty good about this. I didn't really have too much of a plan except not fall below 27 on the faster 2K and hopefully average below 1:54, so I'm OK with this workout. It's hard to do even a 90% 2K for me after this many meters, already having pushed it twice this week. Off day tomorrow. Yeah!

I read up on the 5k plan previously and noticed those intervals. Thanks for being a guinea pig!
Seriously though, I really enjoy reading your detailed description of the plan.

[RayOfSunshine]

PP 1.5: 8k
Target 2:05.7 - 2:08.8
My guesstimate is that is close to 2:00 - 2:03 @ sea level




Pretty whipped right now, but feel great about this piece.

[mdpfirrman]

@ Ray - Really nice TT piece. Don't have to go all out on those if you don't want to. I found out that during the full PP, going all out on those tired me out quite a bit. I don't think that was 100% for you but hard, which is what you want.

10K yesterday for me at 2:10.9. Not much to report other than the lower back is really sore today. Likely too much golf, yard work rather than the rower. Shouldn't complain about rain with all the drought/fires going on out West but we had like 6 days in a row of rain and I had what looked like two weeks of yard work to catch up on in one day (more rain the next two days so this was my only "window"). Been one of the wettest Summers I can recall in Southern Ohio.

Going to try to do the 10 X 500m/1' today. We'll see how the back feels. If it's really sore, might have to be forced to do something on the AirBike. We'll see, it feels much better today than yesterday.

[SowfLondonRower]

After having my enforced 4 day break, got back to finishing week 5 of the BPP on Friday and Saturday:

BPP 5.3: 7000m @ 2:08.4 - couldn't resist dipping under 30mins for this one once I realised I was within range.
BPP 5.4: meant to be 20mins at 1 or 2 seconds faster pace if you feel good. I was feeling good, so I slightly modified and tried to achieve my sub-21 5k target. Ended up doing it in 20:43.4 which I was very pleased with.

Today started week 6:
BPP 6.1: 7500m @ 2:06.5 - I had taken Sunday off and felt nice and rested this morning so upped the speed without feeling like I was working particularly hard.

These improved times may also be related to the fact that I found out I've had a broken knuckle for the last 3 weeks, and the break from rowing has given it an opportunity to heal a bit and cause me less pain.

We've had opposite summers weather-wise Mike, unusually hot here in London which has only cooled a bit recently. It's drastically reduced the amount I'm sweating on these rows!

[RayOfSunshine]

@Mike just the thought of doing 10x500 w/ 1r hurts my back. I tend to come out hot and that's when I tweak my back. Yard work... oh my, definitely hard on the back.

@Rob Solid work! I tweaked the BPP as I went through it as well. I was seeing gains so quickly that I wanted more, so I would shave a second or two off of the target pace until I got to where it was truly a challenge. I look forward to watching you progress through the BPP.

[mdpfirrman]

@Mike just the thought of doing 10x500 w/ 1r hurts my back. I tend to come out hot and that's when I tweak my back. Yard work... oh my, definitely hard on the back.

@Rob Solid work! I tweaked the BPP as I went through it as well. I was seeing gains so quickly that I wanted more, so I would shave a second or two off of the target pace until I got to where it was truly a challenge. I look forward to watching you progress through the BPP.

I forget these plans as they are newer. It's actually a 12 X 500m and no, it wasn't happening today. I'm 60% better than yesterday but not nearly 100%. If I was around 90%, I'd give it a go but decided to do a similar workout on the AirDyne Pro. Not nearly the same thing but a very hard, full body workout (Assault style bike, these things are no joke) and did 12 X 99 seconds sprint (the highest you can set it on for a sprint interval) and then 60 seconds off, which I actually just did very, very slow pedalling during. This was very hard, I don't know if as hard as the rower. I'm also a specificity fan, so if I'm trying to work a plan, I try to stick to the letter of the plan and not modify it but I thought I might be out longer if I tried to do sprints on the rower today. The bike is not nearly as tough on the lower back as the rower but my legs were dead afterward.

The bike said I was working around 240/250 Watts on the sprints but I think it overexaggerates what you do versus the rower in Watts. I'll have to take this as my aerobic workout/sprint work this week. I'll see how it's going tomorrow but might, just to be on the safe side, do 50 minutes on the bike tomorrow for my SS work and then back to the rower on Wednesday (for my intermediate sprints).

@ Rob - nice work! To have done as well as you did with a broken knuckle is pretty impressive (and painful sounding too)! Don't push too, too hard early on with the SS work. Nice progress!

[RayOfSunshine]

@ Rob - nice work! To have done as well as you did with a broken knuckle is pretty impressive (and painful sounding too)! Don't push too, too hard early on with the SS work. Nice progress!

@Rob
I didn't listen to Mike & others when they told me to take it easy on the SS work. I think I missed 3, maybe 4, weeks in total due to injuries from not taking advice. The link below is to one of my favorite posts I've seen on here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170912

[SowfLondonRower]

Cheers for all the messages guys. I have been trying to listen to my body in terms of not pushing too hard, and I think I'm still picking up some easy gains through improving my form. But you're right, I'm very much a numbers, try and hit a target type of person and I need to make sure I don't do that every single row.

I might try the week's second 7.5k with calories on the display and see what happens when I'm not subconsciously trying to nudge the average split down

[Street]

@Rob
I didn't listen to Mike & others when they told me to take it easy on the SS work. I think I missed 3, maybe 4, weeks in total due to injuries from not taking advice. The link below is to one of my favorite posts I've seen on here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=170912

That's a good post actually! I think it's easy to push to hard too early on the BPP then end up burning out towards the end as the meters and weeks add up. By the time you're halfway through, if you are doing all the optional sessions and warmup/cool downs, it's a lot of meters.

We've had opposite summers weather-wise Mike, unusually hot here in London which has only cooled a bit recently. It's drastically reduced the amount I'm sweating on these rows!

I'm still waiting for it to cool in my garage up north, however it won't be long before I'm moaning about how cold it is. It seems there's no happy medium.

I'll have to take this as my aerobic workout/sprint work this week. I'll see how it's going tomorrow but might, just to be on the safe side, do 50 minutes on the bike tomorrow for my SS work and then back to the rower on Wednesday (for my intermediate sprints).

Fingers crossed a couple days on the bike sorts you out!

This is definitely one of my favourite sessions, the psychological boost after the halfway point is great! Wearing the HRM for a few sessions has been fun too. I've worked out a few patterns and it's interesting to see at what HR I start to struggle and wouldn't be able to maintain for a long period.

PP 2.1 Pyramid. Target 1:46.4
14:06.6 - 4,000m - 1:45.8 - 29 - 121
0:53.0 - 250m - 1:46.0 - 29 - 143
1:45.7 - 500m - 1:45.7 - 30 - 161
2:38.7 - 750m - 1:45.8 - 28 - 171
3:32.0 - 1,000m - 1:46.0 - 28 - 176
2:38.9 - 750m - 1:45.9 - 29 - 176
1:45.9 - 500m - 1:45.9 - 28 - 173
0:52.4 - 250m - 1:44.8 - 30 - 160

[RayOfSunshine]

This is definitely one of my favourite sessions, the psychological boost after the halfway point is great! Wearing the HRM for a few sessions has been fun too. I've worked out a few patterns and it's interesting to see at what HR I start to struggle and wouldn't be able to maintain for a long period.

PP 2.1 Pyramid. Target 1:46.4
14:06.6 - 4,000m - 1:45.8 - 29 - 121
0:53.0 - 250m - 1:46.0 - 29 - 143
1:45.7 - 500m - 1:45.7 - 30 - 161
2:38.7 - 750m - 1:45.8 - 28 - 171
3:32.0 - 1,000m - 1:46.0 - 28 - 176
2:38.9 - 750m - 1:45.9 - 29 - 176
1:45.9 - 500m - 1:45.9 - 28 - 173
0:52.4 - 250m - 1:44.8 - 30 - 160

Do you try to hit the same pace on all of the intervals?

I"m doing my 1st PP 2.1 in a couple days.

Should I target something close to what I did on PP 1.1 (8x500)?

[Street]

Do you try to hit the same pace on all of the intervals?

I"m doing my 1st PP 2.1 in a couple days.

Should I target something close to what I did on PP 1.1 (8x500)?

I've just let the pace for them come naturally. I started my first cycle fairly conservative to give myself targets I knew I could hit and went from there. After a few cycles they've levelled off and there is a few seconds difference between each type for me. My 500s are at 1:45, pyramid +1 and 1ks +3 although I think my 1ks are a bit weak.

According to Pete..
8 x 500m = 3seconds faster than 2k pb pace (2k – 3)

Speed pyramid = 2k pb pace (2k)

4 x 1000m = 1second slower than 2k pb pace (2k + 1)

As my 2k pb pace is about 1:46.9, I'm slow on the 500s, faster on the pyramid and about right on the 1kms!

[mdpfirrman]

@ Andy - very nice Pyramid!

Yeah, I like "flat" pacing on that one too. If you start out too fast, you fly and die. The middle part of the Pyramid (750/1000/750 part) is a good indicator of what you'll do on the 2K. I personally am not as fast on the 500s as 2K - 3 pace. Mine is more like 2K pace - 2 on a good day on the 8 X 500m.

[Rowlers]

@ Roel - your strength/power per stroke looks to be pretty consistent (don't ask me how I figured that out but I think I took the Watts calculator and divided total Watts based on pace divided by SR and then multiplied on your faster row and it was consistent, so that's good). I'd just be cautious. This theme could start an entirely new thread/debate. Low rate work (low SR work) has it's place but you just don't want to get in bad habits. If your hands are always moving and you feel OK, feel free to do whatever you like. In at least the full PP, Marston suggests 22 to 24 SR for SS work. I went a while two years ago working a great deal with a higher DF and lower SR (18/19). Come race season, I had a very hard time rating up (higher SR). I found that I had developed habits of pausing at the top and bottom of the rower. Exaggerated lean back, too far forward with knees over the ankles, lowering the chain on the way back, sloppy posture (you should sit upright on the rower with good posture), etc.

Some tell tale signs if you're doing things wrong: Can you row unstrapped without falling off the back? If not, you're spending too much time leaning back and wasting momentum. Do the fronts of your shins ache? Might be a sign you're leaning too far forward and overreaching with your knees past vertical to your feet (over 90 degrees). Are you spending any time up on your balls of your feet, too much time up on the balls of your feet? You shouldn't spend hardly any time up on the balls of your feet. That's the "sign" to start the next stroke immediately once you reach the balls of your feet. Are your straps coming loose? If so, you're likely leaning too far back and pulling them loose with your feet. They shouldn't come loose while you do SS work (or sprints for that matter). Is your rear chaffed? Same thing, too much leaning back and sloppy posture.

Sorry to ramble on, but if none of those are issues, then it's what's comfortable for you. You must have the patience of a saint! I couldn't do rows at that rate. Nice on the 750s, that was solid!!

Thanks Mike! I analyzed your feedback and most of it I think I do right. So no aching shins, no knees over the ankles and no time spend on the balls of my feet. Before I started the BPP though, I spend a few weeks focusing on technique and started rowing unstrapped which went quite ok. After your comments, I tried again rowing unstrapped and literally fell of the rower straight away So that clearly indicates too much lean back. I tried to correct and increased the SR a good bit which felt actually quite a lot better than the lower SR.

By increasing the SR to 21/22, I automatically increased my pace without feeling as it would require more effort. It was a lot easier to maintain the pace and went a bit faster without the extra effort. Below the results:

BPP 2.3 - 5500m



BPP 3.1 - 6000m

[mdpfirrman]

@ Roel - that looks like a solid workout, around the same power per stroke, but much more like the SR you should have on SS work! Glad that felt easier for you. Lean back at the end, by itself isn't a bad thing, you should do it, but you just have to have the right sequence and get your hands back fast to keep balanced. I fell off the rower, too, when I first tried doing it strapless, so I had too much wasted backward momentum as well.

5K PP (W4/D2) - Did the 10K SS today on the rower. Woke up and the back felt pretty decent. I spent a lot of time working on stretching and I have this new nifty Percussion Massager that I was working out the sore spots yesterday and today I felt pretty back to normal. Actually, probably slightly better than I have in a few weeks. I have really cruddy right knee, which ends up making my legs a bit uneven (the left is longer than the right, I really feel it on the rower). I think this, over time, tends to make my back hurt. Just have to spend more time tending to it and being aware of it, especially on these more grueling plans.

Very slow work for SS today. 2:13 or so -- 22 SPM. Started out really slow and by the end was around 2:11/2:10 pace mostly, but the key is the back feels solid afterward. I'm happy with that.

[RayOfSunshine]

@ Roel, solid work! I'm a huge fan of rowing strapless. One of my favorite workouts is 30r20 strapless. 600 strokes, making each one count. I don't use the ErgData app all the time, but I do on restricted pieces.

@ Mike, great news about your back. It's my day off and, damn, do I need it. My back feels tender.