Workout guidance and advice needed

[IdahoMike]

My background:
I did 4 years in the marines where I became obsessed with running and would run about 40 miles per week and lift weights daily.
From there I joined the power lifting team and lifted competitively for about 3 years and got up to 235 lbs @ 5'11"
I no longer run or powerlift but I have a gym in my basement where I workout every morning and use an exercise bike.
So I am currently on my 9th year of steady exercise but with changing goals

My goals:
Im currently down to 198 lbs.
I snowboard ~50 times per season so I am looking to lose even more bodyweight but gain some lower body explosiveness and power to help my snowboarding abilities.
I continued to lift weights and ride a bike 6 days a week until I started using the rower. Now I want to find a good balance of rowing and lifting and do both (maybe use the bike occasionally)
I would like to improve my overall fitness, maintain a good physique, lose weight, continue to strength train the upper body, and gain the lower body explosivness and stamina that im looking for...basically lose body fat and weight but maintain muscle and improve on conditioning and lower body power.

Looking for guidance on what style of workouts to choose from and specifically how to perform them? Ive been doing the medium length workout of the day from the website and really enjoying the workout the rower gives me. I absolutely love punishing and pushing myself.

heres an example of one workput I really like: Row 500M and followed by light pressure for 2 min, repeat 8 times. Im wondering what SPM I should be aiming for and 500m time. and the same questions for the light pressure portion. So far ive been 26-29 SPM and 2 minutes +/- 5 seconds for my 500m time and my light pressure is 20-23 SPM 3:30 500m time (this is my biggest question if im doing this right). Im looking for tips on the most effective stroke rate and 500m time that I should aim for.

here is a form video that id appreciate some feedback on. Is there anything painfully obvious that stands out? I have been engaging my legs first every time but it still feels like a lot of the stroke is coming from the pull of my upper body. are there ant helpful tips or cues on proper form? ive watched the video on the rogue website but would like some other advice too if theres some out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ8DdPkwEEg

Thanks!

[G-dub]

You are off to a good start. Your rhythm looks good and you look relaxed. What I don’t see if you laying back at the end of the drive or rocking over after arms away from the finish -your body stays very upright. Your body should swing from 11:00to 1:00 and the sequence is, from the catch: legs drive, back (hips) swings open, arms pull into chest / then arms away, back (hips) rocks over, then legs fold. Make sure you are opening and closing your hips and not bending mid back. Also try to keep your legs down until after you rock over them. This will put you in a stronger position at catch, more like a deadlift position, and you can then really drive off the footplate.

[jamesg]

So far ive been 26-29 SPM and 2 minutes +/- 5 seconds for my 500m

That style is not what you need, the pull is too slow. This is confirmed by your 500 data. 200W at rate 26-29 is not explosive.

In rowing the fast "explosive" catch is an essential, because the load is moving and we have to catch up with it as soon as possible. To do this, the slow recovery sequence is hands away, then swing, then legs; because this puts us into the right posture at the catch.

In your 500s, try for at least 300W at rating 20 and low drag (pace 1:40). Using the Watt readout you can see immediately how changing technique changes stroke quality.

Lowering the feet can help here; high feet as in the video tip you backwards and makes it almost impossible to row with the legs and hips.

The C2 technique video shows how it's done.
http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... que-videos

[Dangerscouse]

In general your technique looks good but as James says you need to drive more with the legs to make it an explosive drive and slow down the recovery. Try and separate the different stages in your mind (catch, drive, recovery) rather than just sliding backwards and forwards.

Consciously think of really pushing and you could try it with focusing on one leg at a time to really engage your legs with the drive and get used to it.

[hjs]

Looked at your clip. You should not worry about your rest pace, but first build you rowing pace. You at this point put no energy in the handle, really think you are not trying
Short intervals, like 500, should be done relative fast, at the end you want to glad to stop.

Re technique, hang on the handle, you now pull in your arms first, think about how you would carry something heavy, bend arms? Or straight? The arms movement is the last. Its legs, back, arms.

To get fitter, make meters, and use low ratings. A first rough goal could be 5k in 20 min. A average rower should be able to get this done.

[JerekKruger]

Re technique, hang on the handle, you now pull in your arms first, think about how you would carry something heavy, bend arms? Or straight? The arms movement is the last. Its legs, back, arms.

Yep, as a former powerlifter think of rowing as more similar to deadlifting than to barbell rows (despite their name). Push off the footplates with your back braced and only once the legs are near full extension should you open up the back angle and, shortly after, pull with the arms.

Other than that try not to bend your legs before your arms are fully extended in the recovery. At the moment your legs are coming up first and your arms have to move up and over them. Focusing on keeping the legs straight in the recovery will probably help you with the aforementioned problem of pulling with bent arms as well.

As for workouts, Henry (hjs) is right to build fitness you should focus on longer rows at low stroke rate. That said, given you mentioned that you cycle already that aspect of fitness might be covered already (assuming your rides are long) so, given your aim doesn't seem to be to get as fast as possible on the rower, you could focus your rowing workouts on short interval sessions if you enjoy those.

It's difficult to give rate/pace targets for you, as they vary from person to person. If you can increase your speed, or hold the same speed at a lower stroke rate then you're making progress. As a side note I'd say jamesg's suggestion is absurdly ambitious for a beginner (or, indeed, many non-beginners). Even if you aim for 1:45 (which is what 300W is, 1:40 is 350W), doing so at rate 20 is going to be very tough.

[IdahoMike]

Thanks for all of the responses.'

James, you say to aim for a rate of 20 does that mean 20 SPM?

So what I am gathering is to slow my SPM down and aim for more powerful leg drive? Is this the style that most people use no matter what the goal is ? I did some searching and a lot of people recommended 28-30 SPM it seems but im not sure if different goals means different rowing form.

How often do you guys train on the rower? Is it safe to do every day or do you need more recovery time?

[hjs]

Thanks for all of the responses.'

James, you say to aim for a rate of 20 does that mean 20 SPM?

So what I am gathering is to slow my SPM down and aim for more powerful leg drive? Is this the style that most people use no matter what the goal is ? I did some searching and a lot of people recommended 28-30 SPM it seems but im not sure if different goals means different rowing form.

How often do you guys train on the rower? Is it safe to do every day or do you need more recovery time?

Lower ratings (spm) is for longer aerobic sessions. 30 and above is for speedwork at 2k and above speed. Form does not change much, only the recovery between strokes does.

[G-dub]

Idahomike - the effort you were showing on your video would be totally doable day in and day out. Higher levels of intensity would require more recovery. But you will need to judge all that based on your fitness, goals and your ability to recover. On this forum folks do all kinds of things but it’s usual for people to easily row 50-80K per week with varying levels of intensity. For now your programnof doing the concept 2 workouts makes sense since it puts you into different situations. I might, however, do the long one one day and the short one the next and the medium another just to work different things

[jamesg]

Rate, rating mean strokes per minute. The ratings typically used are 18-24 for endurance, 27-29 threshold, 35-40 for sprints, but depend on height and weight.

The goal is to accelerate the flywheel and so do Work. To do this we have to be explosive, because the flywheel is already moving fast at the strike. The sooner we catch up with it, the longer the stroke.

Sorry I got the numbers wrong; initial technical target for a good stroke could be to develop 200W at 20. Not sure it'll be enough to load a Marine! It's these numbers that tell us if we're explosive or not. This will be easy once you see how to use the legs. In a monthly 8x500 this can then, once acquired, be extended to the higher ratings in crescendo to exhaustion, maintaining the ratio 10 or better.

Five days a week is the minimum. There are hundreds of plans here, all progressive:
https://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive

[IdahoMike]

wow thanks for all the help! I subscribed to that website james and will start trying to find better programs to follow. Does anybody else do any sort of weight training along with rowing?

[lindsayh]

wow thanks for all the help! I subscribed to that website james and will start trying to find better programs to follow. Does anybody else do any sort of weight training along with rowing?

Yes Mike many do. Depends a bit on training background and goals but if you look through the threads you will see a lot of talk. Some do weights/resistance to improve performance on the erg, some for general fitness/health/lifestyle and some to balance out the muscles that are not worked so much on the erg. Just a matter of finding balance I guess and depends on available time. Still need to do aerobic training for success on the erg of course.
this may help:
https://indoorsportservices.co.uk/train ... t_training