Rowing twice per day?

[Buxton]

I've been rowing for a number of years and I am about to start the Pete Plan again after a summer of mostly 8k - 15k. I started wondering (and a search didn't really turn up much on this) about rowing twice a day ... say, early morning and evening. The idea being to continue with steady distance in the morning and then do intervals in the evening. I work from home so it's not too difficult to do this if I really want to.

I have never rowed twice in a day before - as far as I can remember - but I can't decide if it's a good idea or not. My primary goal is to improve my 2k time ... but also want to work on my general fitness.

The Pete plan alternates days with long steady rows one day - then intervals the next - so I am thinking about doing one of each, every day. (well, 5-6 days a week)

Sure, I could just go for it and see what happens - but I wondered if anyone has any experience of this. Is it a good idea? bad idea?

Thoughts?

[MPx]

Depends where you're starting from. Its certainly the case that elite athletes train "all the time" and have specific targeted sessions two or even more times a day. Nevertheless as I understand it, the body works by adaption - ie slightly overextend some aspect and the body then adapts by building capacity in the area extended. But that build process takes time (48 hours??) and if you don't allow the recovery phase, then you just get more and more fatigued. I think you'll get benefit from doing the longer slower stuff every day, but would suggest any hard sessions are best left to alternate days at most.

[gooseflight]

If your aim is to improve erg performance then it doesn't make sense to do distance and intervals on the same day every day.

Power endurance gains come the bulk of your training being long, slow distance with faster work at the end of a block. The optimal split being around 80/20 (distance/speed).

If you want to erg twice a day you would be better to map out a periodized programme and initially do distance work twice a day adding faster work later in the programme.

[Rod]

Sounds like a very bad idea as you won't be getting enough rest. You need to do good quality reps in your interval sessions as well as fast time trials so you need to recover from them and be fresh for the next one.

[JerekKruger]

Training twice a day is probably feasible is eased into properly, but training twice a day with one session being a hard one (intervals or hard endurance piece like the Pete Plan) is probably beyond most people (certainly beyond me) and even if you can manage it I'm not sure it's the best way to achieve your goals.

Have you done the Pete Plan before? If not then I'd recommend running it as is before considering upping the volume. The interval sessions are, if done properly, no joke. It's true that the distance is much lower than your typical steady state row (4k for speed and 7.5/8k for endurance) but you should be doing them a lot faster (and you should be doing around 2k warm up and cool down for them as well). If, after running a few* of cycles of the Pete Plan you feel like you could manage more volume then my suggestion would be to either increase the distance you row on the steady state days, or row two steady state pieces on those days (this was my plan before I stopped the Pete Plan). I wouldn't add a steady state row to the hard days and I definitely wouldn't add more hard sessions to the mix. But that's just me.

*I'd suggest at least two as the first time you do an interval session you'll likely pace it wrong and either go too slow, or go too faster early on and die on the later intervals. Either way you won't be working as hard as if you get your pacing correct.

[gooseflight]

Have you done the Pete Plan before? If not then I'd recommend running it as is before considering upping the volume.

If you have time to pack in the volume it doesn't make sense to switch to the Pete Plan, which was after all designed to squeeze a productive programme into a lunch hour.

[hjs]

Depends. First what level are you rowing at? Do you improve at the moment?

Top rowers do train often, but most is very strict ut2. Which is rowing with a very calm Hf.
You talk about combining distance and intervals, which means rowing far above Ut2, not wise.

In general, not training makes you faster, but how well you recover.
If you go for more sessions, make those session strict ut2 and build aerobic volume meters. Do not ad speed work extra.

[G-dub]

I generally "train" 2 times a day 6 days a week unless something comes up and/or I'm tired. It adds up to 8-10 hours a week, so the sessions aren't overly long. I also cross train with runs and bike in the mornings some too to keep from getting burned out with just rowing. But as mentioned, my morning sessions and most of my afternoon sessions are UT2 with some UT1 and AT thrown in there and occasionally some sprints. But with the Pete Plan, it isn't sustainable for me to go twice a day if doing the PP with full intention. The interval sessions are too taxing.

[JerekKruger]

If you have time to pack in the volume it doesn't make sense to switch to the Pete Plan, which was after all designed to squeeze a productive programme into a lunch hour.

Sure, I was just saying how I would modify the Pete Plan if I wanted to do it with extra volume. I'm not saying that it's a good idea.

[nick rockliff]

In the past I've trained twice a day but not everyday, would have been about 11 sessions per week and would all be UT2 and UT1. Mainly UT2 and to strict HR zones determined by blood lactate profile. That was in my late 40s

Most of my PBs were second sessions of the day.

When I lived in China I would train everyday and most with two sessions but again nearly all UT2 and UT1. Was in my early 50s then.

The periods where I did train twice a day and get big volume in were my most successful periods.

Never used to do speed work until a couple of weeks before a race.

[calalli]

Last week I did row twice a day and noticed the effect by the end of the week. I have been doing circuit training in the am and rowing in the afternoon for 6 months.Last week I was doing a 10000M SS in the morning then the Beginner Pete Plan week 21 in the afternoon. By the end of the week I was feeling a lot of fatigue and strain in my wrists and forearms. Perhaps it is my stroke? Perhaps I should have done the BPP in the am and the SS in the afternoon? I don't know but I don't plan to continue that routine.

[jamesg]

Rowing twice a day is normal when we have nothing else to do and at race venues. It helps stop the crew wandering around, getting drunk and overeating, as coach can keep an eye on them for most of the time. Workouts would typically be a long slowish piece in the morning to reconnoitre the course, weather and whatever, with a few starts in the afternoon after adequate warmup.

Crews need to get used to rowing at any hour and more than once, since in a regatta there may be 3-4 races in one day, warming up for each race. Routines for changing, getting the boat out and afloat and ashore, all have to be practiced, not least so that cox or steersman know where to go and how.

On the erg these problems don't exist. Erg training plans are usually organized round one wo per day, since most people with a job and a family won't have time or energy for more. The WP mentions up to 11 wo per week (for Varsity crews); no doubt the mix is there to see, probably with LSS % increased to avoid overtraining.

When I can I always move twice a day at least: bike (20-30k) and swim (1-2k) or erg (5-8k). No risk of OT at my paces, tho where I am, half of 30k is 15k uphill and maybe steep.

[gregsmith01748]

Hi,

This thread has intrigued me, so I did a bit of digging. The Pete Plan is, to some extent, based on the Wolverine Plan. Mike Caviston published some notes about doing the WP with different numbers of sessions per week.

If you aren't familiar with the WP, the Level 1 workouts are short intervals, Level 2 are long intervals (1.5K to 3K), Level 3 are a bit like hiard distance, but a bit less intense and longer. Level 4 is the stuff that Pete didn't like and replaced with the steady distance sessions.

4 Workouts/Week:
Day 1: Level 1 OR Level 2 (alternate each week)
Day 2: Level 4 (40')
Day 3: Level 3 (12K)
Day 4: Level 4 (60')
• Alternate the Level 1 or 2 workouts until about 4 weeks before your big race. Then, while keeping Level 1, replace the Level 3 or one of the Level 4s with Level 2.
• You might occasionally use an interval format rather than a continuous format for Level 3 or 4 (see the Wolverine Plan for details).

5 Workouts/Week:
Day 1: Level 1
Day 2: Level 4 (40')
Day 3: Level 2
Day 4: Level 4 (60')
Day 5: Level 3 (12K)

6 Workouts/Week:
Day 1: Level 1
Day 2: Level 4 (40')
Day3: Level 2
Day 4: Level 4 (4 x 10')
Day 5: Level 3 (15K) Day 6: Level 4 (60')

7 Workouts/Week:
Day 1, AM: Level 4 (40') Day 1, PM: Level 3 (10 x 3')
Day 2: Level 1
Day 3: Level 4 (2 x 40')
Day 4: Level 2
Day 5: Level 4 (4 x 10') Day 6: Level 3 (12K)

8 Workouts/Week:
Day 1, AM: Level 4 (40') Day 1, PM: Level 3 (12 x 3')
Day 2: Level 1
Day 3, AM: Level 4 (40') Day 3, PM: Level 4 (60')
Day 4: Level 2
Day 5: Level 4 (4 x 10')
Day 6: Level 3 (15K)
• If doing more than one Level 3 or more than 2 Level 4s per week, do one using the interval format on a regular basis.
• The amounts listed for Level 3 & 4 may need to be built gradually over several weeks.

So, if you want to take advice from the WP, then you should restrict your two a days to two steady distance sessions or one steady distance and one hard distance. For the hardest workouts, the short and long intervals, you should only do one a day and take extra recovery time. I think it will also be important to keep the intensity lower on the steady distance.

Hope this helps.

[Edward4492]

As training for the up-coming head races OTW (essentially 4k +/- time trials) four of us (me, my doubles partner and two other ladies) have been doing an OTW session in the morning and then an erg session in the evening. We generally target a total of 12k to 14k combined. A typical OTW session is 8k, so Janet (age 68) does another 4k on the erg, I generally shoot for 5-6k on the erg. This generally revolves around six mornings of OTW sessions with an additional 3-5 days on the erg; being careful to skip the erg sessions if we went hard OTW or feel fatigue setting in. This has all been steady state so far, about 10s/500 off of race pace. 2-3 weeks prior to the first week we plan on dropping the extra erg work and do interval work OTW.

The basics never change. Bump up the volume? Need to back off the intensity. Doing hard intervals? Need to back off the volume and get more rest. The OP is 33yrs old, can probably handle a bigger training load than a bunch of 60+ masters. I put a lot of faith in how I feel. The other issue for me is my OTW work involves a 4:00am wake up call Mon to Fri. So 3-4 days of that is enough. Once I start to feel a bit exhausted, I get some sleep.