What's the best way to include strength training?

[Masterninja]

Being very new to rowing I don't think I'm qualified to comment on the integration of weight training/rowing specifically but I have trained quite a few athletes and done strength training for some time. I wish someone had brought to my attention, much earlier in my strength training career, the importance of periodization. All of the advice that has been given on this thread is solid. All of it will work. As to which works best for you, there are two important variables at play:
1. Your genetics: you could be a predominately fast twitch person in which case you will respond well to lower reps heavier weight. Or you could be slower twitch dominant (which a lot of rowing types are) and you will see most of your gains from moderate to higher reps and more time under tension.
2. What you will actually implement. You might find the best program in the world but if it doesn't fit your life then it's worthless.

In any case I think you will see the most benefit from cycling both lower rep heavier weight cycles with higher rep more endurance based work. I'd suggest adjusting your rowing training to accommodate the cycles and you might be pleasantly surprised and see good gains in both. If you run shorter cycles (10 days to 2 weeks) often times you will find that the attributes you were focusing on in the previous cycle have not even had time to stagnate by the time you rotate back to them and in fact may have improved. An example would be:

-2 weeks of higher intensity lower rep work on squat, deadlift, overhead press waving the workouts from 75%-90% 1RM over the course of two weeks. Due to the higher intensity and increased demand on the central nervous system during this time you may choose to focus on longer duration steady state rowing work with this cycle cause it won't tax your cns like sprints will.

-2 weeks of lower intensity higher rep work. 15-20 reps at 40-60% of 1RM. Pair this with some mid distance work and more sprint sessions as your cns will be taxed less.

I would not attempt to go to failure on either of these cycles until you are accustomed to the volume and know how your body will respond. After you've built a decent strength foundation I've found that higher volume low rep dynamic work can be alternated in lieu of the heavier strength phase at least every other cycle without losing any strength gains. In fact it might translate into some increased watts on the rower for you if you select some good posterior chain exercises for it as well.

Again nothing more than a suggestion. Tudor bompa, an amazing Olympic coach, wrote of a similar approach and I bastardized it some to make a program suitable for an mma fighter and a Muay Thai athlete I was training at the time. Best of luck!

[G-dub]

Masterninja - Can you explain "higher volume lower rep dynamic work"?

[gregsmith01748]

Look into 'Easy Strength', 'Power to the People' and Dan John's 40 day program.

You can get stronger in 10-15 minutes a day without impacting your recover or rowing training at all.

I bought the books. I have to admit, I'm struggling a bit to translate it into a practical program. Could you give me an example of how you implement the program for yourself over a couple of weeks? How many exercises? What exercises? Sets, reps?

Thanks!

[gregsmith01748]

I appreciate all the feedback. I think I am going to go forward with a plan along these lines.
Comments are Welcome.

- 2 strength sessions a week.

- These sessions will be tacked onto the end of a shortened endurance session (probably 40 minutes of endurance and 30 minutes of strength work)

- The plan will be very simple including 4 exercises per session
--A compound lift emphasizing the rowing muscle groups
---squats
---deadlifts,
---power cleans
--Something for upper body rowing muscles
---Pull ups
---Chin ups
---Lat pull downs
--Something for counter muscle groups
---Push ups
---Bench press
---Standing press
---Seated Press
--Core
---Ab roll outs
---planks
---leg lifts

- In terms of reps and sets. I will probably use some advice from some other folks to mix this up in blocks. A couple weeks of lower reps, more sets. Then a couple weeks of higher reps and less sets. Generally, I will be going for 20 to 30 total reps.

- Weight. I will progressively increase weight, but follow the guideline that I will stop at least one rep before failure.

[skiffrace]

These sessions will be tacked onto the end of a shortened endurance session (probably 40 minutes of endurance and 30 minutes of strength work

You may think again about mixing strength and endurance training in the same session.
It will be fine if your main goal is strength maintenance - something typically done in the on-the-water racing season.
During the off-season, consider dedicated strength session (but preceded by a good warmup - ex 20 or even 30 minutes on the erg)
Your strength gains will be better this way.

A couple weeks of lower reps, more sets. Then a couple weeks of higher reps and less sets

This is a good idea. Again, consider doing heavy weights mostly during the off-season strength build-up phase, and mostly lower weight during the OTW racing season, when lower weights + more reps will contribute towards your endurance.

As for exercise mix, consider emphasizing the "antagonistic" muscles. They do not contribute much to your pulling power, but will play a major role in long-term health and fitness. To develop true "rowing strength", rowing at very low rate and max power probably works best anyway.

[Anth_F]

I appreciate all the feedback. I think I am going to go forward with a plan along these lines.
Comments are Welcome.

- 2 strength sessions a week.

- These sessions will be tacked onto the end of a shortened endurance session (probably 40 minutes of endurance and 30 minutes of strength work)

- The plan will be very simple including 4 exercises per session
--A compound lift emphasizing the rowing muscle groups
---squats
---deadlifts,
---power cleans
--Something for upper body rowing muscles
---Pull ups
---Chin ups
---Lat pull downs
--Something for counter muscle groups
---Push ups
---Bench press
---Standing press
---Seated Press
--Core
---Ab roll outs
---planks
---leg lifts

- In terms of reps and sets. I will probably use some advice from some other folks to mix this up in blocks. A couple weeks of lower reps, more sets. Then a couple weeks of higher reps and less sets. Generally, I will be going for 20 to 30 total reps.

- Weight. I will progressively increase weight, but follow the guideline that I will stop at least one rep before failure.

Good plan if you ask me However, With the core work you plan on doing, make sure to incorporate hyperextension work for the lower back. So you work the entire core (even though ab rollouts do help) hyperextensions are very beneficial for rowing purposes ( do them incline fashion if possible as you get the most from this exercise that way, and holding a weight plate to your chest while you perform them is a good idea if you eventually start finding it easy)

[gregsmith01748]

Good plan if you ask me However, With the core work you plan on doing, make sure to incorporate hyperextension work for the lower back. So you work the entire core (even though ab rollouts do help) hyperextensions are very beneficial for rowing purposes ( do them incline fashion if possible as you get the most from this exercise that way, and holding a weight plate to your chest while you perform them is a good idea if you eventually start finding it easy)

Good suggestion. I'll look into it.

[gregsmith01748]

These sessions will be tacked onto the end of a shortened endurance session (probably 40 minutes of endurance and 30 minutes of strength work

You may think again about mixing strength and endurance training in the same session.
It will be fine if your main goal is strength maintenance - something typically done in the on-the-water racing season.
During the off-season, consider dedicated strength session (but preceded by a good warmup - ex 20 or even 30 minutes on the erg)
Your strength gains will be better this way.

My intent was to keep the 40 minute endurance work pretty light. I might adjust this if I go along if I don't feel like I'm making much progress on the strength side.

A couple weeks of lower reps, more sets. Then a couple weeks of higher reps and less sets

This is a good idea. Again, consider doing heavy weights mostly during the off-season strength build-up phase, and mostly lower weight during the OTW racing season, when lower weights + more reps will contribute towards your endurance.

As for exercise mix, consider emphasizing the "antagonistic" muscles. They do not contribute much to your pulling power, but will play a major role in long-term health and fitness. To develop true "rowing strength", rowing at very low rate and max power probably works best anyway.

That was the intent with the pushups and presses. Are there specific exercises that you think would be useful.

[skiffrace]

Are there specific exercises that you think would be useful.

Rowing works the upper body in the pulling fashion, and the lower body in the pushing fashion.
So, consider exercises that do the opposite: bench presses, military presses, dips for upper body, and hamstring curls, good mornings etc. for legs.
Also, some quality core exercises - hyper-extensions for the lower back, intense curls for the abs.

Finally, last but perhaps most important : how is your flexibility? Last 5-10 minutes of the workout spent on quality stretching is worth its weight in gold

[gregsmith01748]

Just found this link. Basically the same basic advice, reasonably well described.

https://sites.google.com/site/winterwei ... forrowers/

[Masterninja]

I would also suggest cycling in some snatch grip deadlifts. If you don't have the mobility to perform them off the floor use a power rack with the pins set about mid to upper shin or some lifting boxes to pull from. I think this is a really undervalued exercise for rowers because of the additional work it gives the muscles of the midback.

Additionally, zercher squats are a fantastic substitute for regular squats. They, like snatch grip deads, force good form and don't allow you to compensate much so you actually get a great workout with less stress on the joints and more ab activation.

[aussieluke]

Look into 'Easy Strength', 'Power to the People' and Dan John's 40 day program.

You can get stronger in 10-15 minutes a day without impacting your recover or rowing training at all.

I bought the books. I have to admit, I'm struggling a bit to translate it into a practical program. Could you give me an example of how you implement the program for yourself over a couple of weeks? How many exercises? What exercises? Sets, reps?

Thanks!

Straight from DJ's original article on the 40-day program:

The 40 Day Workout
A few years ago, Pavel Tsatsouline, noted kettlebell master and perhaps the keenest mind in strength I've ever met, gave me a simple program. Be wary, this program is so simple that you'll ignore its value.

For the next 40 workouts, do the exact same training program every day. (For the record, I find that most of my goals are reached by day 20 or 22, so you can also opt for a shorter period.)
Pick five exercises. I suggest you do a squatting movement like the goblet squat or overhead squat as part of the warm-up, as you don't want to ignore the movement, but it might be fun to focus on other aspects of your body.
Focus on these five movements:
A large posterior chain movement (the deadlift is the right answer)
Upper body push (bench press, incline bench press, military press)
Upper body pull (pull-ups, rows, or, if you've ignored them like me, heavy bicep curls)
A simple full-body explosive move (kettlebell swings or snatches)
And something for what I call an "anterior chain" move (an abdominal exercise). I think the ab wheel is king here, but you can also do some movements best suited for lower reps.
Only do two sets of five reps per workout for the deadlift and push/pull exercises, and one set of 20 to 50 for the explosive move. Do a solid single set of five reps for the abs.

More recently, Dan would likely have 'loaded carries' in place of the ab work: Kettlebell farmer walks, suitcase walks, sandbag carry etc etc


Never plan or worry about the weight or the load. Always stay within yourself and go heavy "naturally."
Don't eat chalk, scream, or pound on walls. Simply do each lift without any emotion or excitement and strive for perfect technique.

So, the workout might consist of these five movements:

Thick bar deadlift
Bench press
Heavy biceps curls
Kettlebell swings
Ab wheel
For the record, this is exactly what I recently used in my workouts. I often did this five days a week, and found that my lifts naturally waved up and down throughout the week and the full 40 days. Sometimes, something like a 250-pound bench press would feel so light for both sets of five that I had to hold back on the excitement to do more sets and reps.

The secret to the program is that you get your volume from doing up to ten sets of a lift in a week and the load increases as you naturally feel like the weights are "easy." It is that simple.

As I suggested in my earlier post, I would pick that will give you strength and mobility, yet not get in the way of your rowing ...something like:

Goblet squats 3x5
Barbell deadlift (with the bar raised a few inches, making it more lower back friendly) 2x5
Kettlebell press 3 x 1,2,3
Pullups 3 x 1,2,3
Farmer walks/Suitcase walks ...vary this every day, just pick up one or two kettlebells or dumbbells and walk


You don't need to do a thousand different exercises and movements to get full body strength.

A deadlift is a full body exercise
Pressing a weight overhead is a full body exercise
Carrying heavy weights is a full body exercise... etc etc

[aussieluke]

I would also suggest cycling in some snatch grip deadlifts. If you don't have the mobility to perform them off the floor use a power rack with the pins set about mid to upper shin or some lifting boxes to pull from. I think this is a really undervalued exercise for rowers because of the additional work it gives the muscles of the midback.

Additionally, zercher squats are a fantastic substitute for regular squats. They, like snatch grip deads, force good form and don't allow you to compensate much so you actually get a great workout with less stress on the joints and more ab activation.

Part of the long term idea with the Easy Strength / 40 day plan etc is to do a cycle, then pick a few same but different lifts for the next cycle

Deadlift / Snatch Grip Deadlift / Sumo deadlift / Zerchers / Trap Bar deadlifts / Fat bar/axle deadlifts...

Barbell military press, one arm kettlebell press, double kettlebell press, bench press, incline bench press...

you don't need to do them all at once, just get strong at one then move on to another.

[Masterninja]

I would also suggest cycling in some snatch grip deadlifts. If you don't have the mobility to perform them off the floor use a power rack with the pins set about mid to upper shin or some lifting boxes to pull from. I think this is a really undervalued exercise for rowers because of the additional work it gives the muscles of the midback.

Additionally, zercher squats are a fantastic substitute for regular squats. They, like snatch grip deads, force good form and don't allow you to compensate much so you actually get a great workout with less stress on the joints and more ab activation.

Part of the long term idea with the Easy Strength / 40 day plan etc is to do a cycle, then pick a few same but different lifts for the next cycle

Deadlift / Snatch Grip Deadlift / Sumo deadlift / Zerchers / Trap Bar deadlifts / Fat bar/axle deadlifts...

Barbell military press, one arm kettlebell press, double kettlebell press, bench press, incline bench press...

you don't need to do them all at once, just get strong at one then move on to another.

Absolutely Luke! I've done two 40 day easy strength programs this year. They are truly a great departure from my previous powerlifting-style background and it's much much easier on my body. I did the following for anyone interested:

Cycle 1:
Trap bar deadlifts
Wide grip pull-ups
Barbell military presses
Ab wheel
Kb snatch for 20 reps
Overhead double kb carries

Cycle 2:
Zercher deadlifts from rack
Thick bar pull-ups
One arm kb jerks
Ab wheel
Kb snatch for 20 reps
Sandbag carries

Both were fantastic routines and the easy strength format really makes it refreshing.

[aussieluke]

Nice programs there 'ninj

I've done several variations from PTTP with barbell deadlifts and presses, 40 days with a mix of barbell and kettlebell lifts, 40 days with just kettlebells...

I've also done the old Starting Strength linear progression which worked for a while and I got strong but also spent half my life eating and not being able to do much else ...and then spent s long time trying to lose the weight I'd gained!