RowPro heart rate bands

[Zebedee]

Hi,

I am new to the forum so if my question has already been answered or is obvious to all I apologise.

I came back to the Concept 2 four years ago. It has massively helped my back problems and general fitness.

I tend to row RowPro training plans. I am tempted to give Pete's Plan a go. It seems a major difference between the two is that PP Speed and Endurance intervals would typically have targets quite close to maximum effort. Meanwhile in RowPro when I am rowing build weeks I see a strength interval (say 6 x 500m at stroke rate of 21) with a heart rate upper limit of 138 (I am 48 so this is quite a long way off my theoretical maximum heart rate of around 172).

So is RowPro advising quite low heart rate sessions as i) an attempt not to cause health problems for users who might have heart issues or ii) these heart rate training bands are likely to provide the greatest benefits. Certainly I find myself wanting to go through the heart rate bands recommended by RowPro in order to get a decent workout.

Thanks!

[MarkEg]

Hi,

I am new to the forum so if my question has already been answered or is obvious to all I apologise.

I came back to the Concept 2 four years ago. It has massively helped my back problems and general fitness.

I tend to row RowPro training plans. I am tempted to give Pete's Plan a go. It seems a major difference between the two is that PP Speed and Endurance intervals would typically have targets quite close to maximum effort. Meanwhile in RowPro when I am rowing build weeks I see a strength interval (say 6 x 500m at stroke rate of 21) with a heart rate upper limit of 138 (I am 48 so this is quite a long way off my theoretical maximum heart rate of around 172).

So is RowPro advising quite low heart rate sessions as i) an attempt not to cause health problems for users who might have heart issues or ii) these heart rate training bands are likely to provide the greatest benefits. Certainly I find myself wanting to go through the heart rate bands recommended by RowPro in order to get a decent workout.

Thanks!

Welcome back to the sport. Lots of helpful people here. It really depends on what you're aim is? General fitness? Also,firstly I'd probably want to establish what my actual max heart rate is, if I was you. Theoretical is just that. I'm roughly the same age as you for example and I have never, ever seen my HR above 161 on the monitor, and that's including on some sessions that have been so tough for me that they have given me clear view into the future. So, mine is relatively low -- and that influences everything. My UT2 ( Steady state sessions) are mostly done in and around 138 or so. That said, even given variations in MAX HR , 138 limit for intervals is quite low. How long rest in between these? Personally I'd always favor the Pete Plan although I am not doing it just now. Equally, I like the interactive nature of RowPro, although I only ever go on there for the scheduled 10Ks that people invite rowers to join. I never do any of the Row Pro sessions per se, but that's not to say they aren't effective.

So, having said all that. I think you need to establish a working max HR before almost anything else. Hope that helps.

[gooseflight]

What Mark said.

Depends on your aims, personality and whether in HR terms you're a diesel or a two stroke. Good idea to find out.

If you want to row PBs at a variety of distances at some point in the future then start by doing lots of steady state work at low rate. 6K, 10K and up at rates from 18 to 22 spm.

Train by HR to make sure you're not slipping into pointless threshold work. It's an [imperfect] proxy for lactate testing but it's 20% better than your guess as an athlete as to how hard you're working.

If you want to join a group for motivation then jump into the Pete Plan pool. There's a current thread but they're already a few weeks into it so maybe an idea to wait for the next round.

Don't know much about the RowPro plans but for sure no point to try to compare them to the Pete Plan, which is not an HR based plan.

Couple of recent threads that relate:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=149152

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=148950

[Zebedee]

Hi,

Thanks both for the advice.

I weight about 135lbs and the last time I tried 2k I was just under 8'10". My normal training and performance is more "diesel" than "two stroke" but I want to move over to the latter. My resting heart rate is 47 and max heart rate is close to theoretical at 173. I find I really only feel I am working at >=140.

I think I will give PP a go next time it comes round and will check out the threads.

Meanwhile any thoughts about whether to strictly keep to the RowPro heart Rate bands would be good.

Thanks again.

[gooseflight]

I should have said, whether or not your >max< HR is diesel or two stroke.

There are rowers in their mid 50s who report seeing 190+ on the monitor and there are people like Mark in their mid 40s who can't max beyond ~160. The formulas for max HR aren't that great. If you really want to know your max HR, do a step test on the erg.

As far as RowPro HRs are concerned, what's the rest on that interval session? If your max HR is north of 170 you would probably have to work pretty hard to get your HR over 140 on a low rate 6 x 500 session unless the rest is short. And if RowPro describes it as a "strength interval" then I'm presuming it's not mean to be a heart bouncing HIT session.

[MarkEg]

Hi,

Thanks both for the advice.

I weight about 135lbs and the last time I tried 2k I was just under 8'10". My normal training and performance is more "diesel" than "two stroke" but I want to move over to the latter. My resting heart rate is 47 and max heart rate is close to theoretical at 173. I find I really only feel I am working at >=140.

I think I will give PP a go next time it comes round and will check out the threads.

Meanwhile any thoughts about whether to strictly keep to the RowPro heart Rate bands would be good.

Thanks again.

Sounds like what you need, based on what you are saying, is polarized training to get that HR up. Doing intervals at 138 is falling between the two.Not fast enough, and not far enough. For the sake of argument, and this has been decided solely based on what my available time is, my training week consists of 2x interval sessions like 8x500m with 1 minute rest at my 2k pace -1. Then 4 x distance pieces (10K + ) at 2k + 15 or 20 and at low rate. A few people might pick holes in this but it's perfect for my needs, and gives a blend of speed and distance. My weakness is that I don't time test enough.

[jamesg]

At 135 lb you'll get the best results by training at 120-130W and the lowest rating possible, for as long as possible.

The occasional 500 or even 2k test can then tell you whether to increase the 2W/kg (or 1W/pound) training ratio.

As the C2 gives us a direct and accurate Watt reading, we don't need HR as a proxy for output. Just slow down a bit if HR is going up too fast.

[Zebedee]

Hi,

As an example the RowPro session tonight was 4 lots of 250 r 750 where the 250 was at 21 spm with a heart rate limit of 138 and the 750 rest was at 25 spm with a heart rate limit of 130.

It's possible that given I have had a break from the ergo, due to injury, and just returned that I didn't pick a sufficiently aggressive training plan. Certainly sticking to the limits above does not feel like a workout and I pretty much ignore the 138 heart rate limit (allowing me to get well within my 2k pace).

My (accurately) measured max heart rate is 173.

I'll take a look at rowing to Watt output rather than heart rate. And reckon I will give PP a go next time it comes round.

Thanks.

[gooseflight]

As the C2 gives us a direct and accurate Watt reading, we don't need HR as a proxy for output. Just slow down a bit if HR is going up too fast.

HR isn't a proxy for output it's a proxy for intensity. The C2 doesn't measure intensity.

[Bob S.]

HR isn't a proxy for output it's a proxy for intensity. The C2 doesn't measure intensity.

????? If wattage is not a measure of intensity, WTF do you call it

[gooseflight]

HR isn't a proxy for output it's a proxy for intensity. The C2 doesn't measure intensity.

????? If wattage is not a measure of intensity, WTF do you call it

Well smart@rse, how do you determine HR from wattage?

[Bob S.]

HR isn't a proxy for output it's a proxy for intensity. The C2 doesn't measure intensity.

????? If wattage is not a measure of intensity, WTF do you call it

Well smart@rse, how do you determine HR from wattage?

I don't. I did see a correlation of my own HR with wattage on long pieces, especially when I used RowPro, but didn't use it for anything. There didn't seem to be any point to it. If it were out of line on a particular piece, I would be concerned and try to figure out why there should be a change. Other than that, to me the intensity of work that you are putting into the machine is directly measured in watts on the monitor. That is what it was designed for. HR is not a very satisfactory measure of intensity, what with the long lag at the start and fluctuations caused by distractions.

I specified long pieces, since there is so much lag on the shorter ones.

[griff]

For what it's worth, I tried the RowPro workouts a few years ago but never felt I was getting much of a workout either. I did the UK Indoor sport workouts http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive (weight loss and 2k) for a few seasons and found them better. I am currently in Week 7 of the Pete Plan and am really enjoying it; definitely managing to reduce times. BTW, I am 53 and also have a max HR around 175.

[Carl Watts]

A HR capped at 138 max is not going to be much of a workout.

My age is similar at 49 and I recently saw 188 on the screen during a bit of a sprint finish at the end of a 40 minute so my max must still be in the low 190's at least but my average HR for a decent training row is still in the high 140's to low 150's and thats AVERAGE so the max is at about 160.

Go on how you feel and how sustainable it is from week to week. I have found it takes about 2 weeks for the training to start kicking in so what can feel easy for a few days, takes weeks for the effects of any fatigue to set in.

It also varies depending on training so even 30 minutes is different from 40 minutes and recently we have been doing 2 x 20 minutes with 2 minutes rest, which is much easier than 40 minutes non stop as you get a decent HR reset. Take 5 minutes off and your average HR on the second row is only a few BPM higher average than the first as you can almost get full recovery.

Heartrate, rating or spm and pace are all related to you personally so decent training comes from a bit of experience and your the best judge of what suits you for the long term. Asking others can be a bit of a crap shoot.

RowPro is great for training rows, try to join others online or set something up and others will join you.

[jamesg]

To use HR as a measure of Intensity is irrational. Beyond the Conconi point, HR no longer increases with power output, so using HR provides no information and can lead to overtraining.

Since for basic fitness, we can always stay below the Conconi point, then if we have measured that point, HR provides a useful top limit.

If we want to race and think that some sharpening can help or even replace endurance, then the Watt readout is necessary and sufficient.

There is too the additional advantage that relating Power and Rating can offer info on stroke quality and technique.

Ignoring watts will of course leave us entirely in the dark as to all these aspects.