Weight Training For Endurance

[lindsayh]

this maybe interesting in this discussion - it is from the C2 training guide (in the Danish training section)

There is no reason why heavyweights and lightweights should not follow the same training regime. The
only exception is in the area of weight training to develop strength. Here the heavyweight has the
advantage of being able to increase muscle mass whereas the lightweight is limited by total body weight
constraints. Beyond a certain strength level however, there is no evidence that more strength results in
improved performance over 2,000m. A number of athletes were tested for strength by fixing the chain on
the Concept 2 Indoor Rower and introducing a strain gauge to the handle. The strength difference in the
athletes tested ranged from 160kg to 280kg, a difference of 80%. However, when they were then asked
to row 2,000m, the rower with the lowest score was able to maintain a power output of 400 watts and
was near to the top of the group.

There is also some good stuff on weight training for strength and endurance in the guide as well
https://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/guide

[aussieluke]

From a different perspective, here are two out of 5 articles (3 more to come soon) from Danish Indoor rowing team member and fitness science author Kenneth Jay

http://cardiocode.dk/blog/files/2ebeaf0 ... 18-15.html

http://cardiocode.dk/blog/files/174791e ... c7-16.html

[raotor]

Steve I think the answer is that there are few obvious specific weight programs for endurance mainly because as said above there really isn't a lot of value in doing weights to support endurance training. I agree the best thing is slow heavy strokes for 30/40 minutes to improve power - each stroke is a lying leg press.

I love doing weights though for a number of reasons:
It actually helps build and maintain the muscles that are not exercised by rowing.
It helps a lot with the sprinty stuff
It is great for general fitness and variety in the training
Resistance training and development of muscle mass is really important especially as we age - there are huge long term health benefits.
There is no doubt that people who maintain and build muscle mass live longer that those who don't
Really good for self esteem - I love sometimes out lifting the young guys in the gym and I love the old guy flex in the mirror too!

Hi Lindsay,

I totally agree with all your points on the merits of weight training. I have come to like the way my body has subtly but noticeably firmed up and have been given a training plan by a contact who has plenty of experience in this field and acts as a personal trainer too.

So, I don't want to stop the training I'm doing but am wondering if my regime is actually hurting my erg work as I've seen a decline in performance on various type of piece, which may or may not have anything to do with the lifting but nevertheless am concerned that I am doing the "wrong" kind of lifting and developing muscle in a way that might promote greater raw strength but either places a greater demand upon my CV system or replaces slow twitch endurance oriented muscle fibres with those better suited to brief burst of strength. It's this issue I'm trying to both understand and address. I imagine there must be a balance between power and the CV system that drives and has to support all that extra muscle mass and it's that balance I'm trying to ascertain.

A rough and perhaps inaccurate analogy I can think of that is the core of my concern is if you put a bigger engine into a car then it will need more fuel. To my limited knowledge, fuel is oxygen as provided for by a developed CV system honed by aerobic conditioning. If I enlarge muscles I have and work on those I don't regularly use then I imagine that the demand for oxygen is going to increase and thus the aerobic endurance suffers.

[raotor]

I have been pondering this question for a little while and asked a similar one in another thread. If focus is on an endurance sport, such as rowing 2K for best time, weight lifting is used as Lindsey describes and supports your body and your efforts in your sport. As Luke says, strength can be gained without overdoing it energy wise. Putting too much energy with big set combinations and lots of body building reps might have a negative impact on recovery and could create soreness, which would impact endurance training motivation or having energy it seems to me. So doing just enough to get or stay strong and to work the various movement patterns (pull, push, hinge, etc) seems to make sense. And I think it should be included in the time spent training during the week for all the reasons Lindsey mentions plus enhancing mobility encouraging good hormone releases and creating a balanced body.

PS - I'd be curious what book you are referring to.

The book I refer to is -

"Slow Burn: Burn Fat Faster by Exercising Slower"

By Stu Mittleman.


The author cites an example in it where one of his clients has been weight
training in the more usual manner which gave him good definition and muscle
mass but how his strength built by his method of heavy lifting had developed
the anaerobic, sugar burning and thus much less sustainable fast twitch
fibres such that his long distance running was actually impaired. Once the
author had changed the weight regime to a much lighter, higher repetition
training system where upon he lost much of the heavier muscle mass in favour
of leaner, more toned muscles, his endurance improved greatly.

This book, however, is written for the long distance runner in mind and I am
beginning to wonder just how relevant some of his observations are in
respect of the generally much shorter distance events seen in rowing. The
authors general rationale is that developing muscles that burn fat, a much
longer lasting fuel source than the very short term sugar burning ones,
promotes a much greater endurance oriented athlete.

As per my initial remark that you never see rowers built like body builders
or even close to it, must be relevant in the make up of a rower that
suggests that raw power via large muscle mass is not beneficial to rowing
which relies more heavily on endurance as its main stay.

I would imagine that there is an optimal approach to how heavy you lift and
the repetitions done that suit a rowing related activity but it's defining
that balance point that appears very ambiguous to me right now.

[G-dub]

I find him and his colleague Maffetone a little extreme in their views about only using fat burning system. Nice writings and there is something to learn about stress and taking a long view, but I am not sure I could do my best 2K with there approach.

[hjs]

I find him and his colleague Maffetone a little extreme in their views about only using fat burning system. Nice writings and there is something to learn about stress and taking a long view, but I am not sure I could do my best 2K with there approach.

Suited for extreme endurance, not for 6/7 min effort, you need a good bit of strenght and anaerobic power.
Rowers are among endurance athletes the biggest and the strongest. Even lightweight rowers are still pretty big relative speaking.

[Tim K.]

So, I don't want to stop the training I'm doing but am wondering if my regime is actually hurting my erg work as I've seen a decline in performance on various type of piece

Are you planning to try to make a living erging?

At the end of the day and for all the head butting I do with hjs, (Im now on his ignore list ) one of the more valuable "sound bites" I have gotten from this forum was from him and it was basically that strength and aerobic capacity are antagonistic. My understanding is that if you suck at both you will be able to improve both but once you are well trained, developing one further will cause a deterioration of the other.

If your enjoying the results of the weight training then enjoy it! So what if your erg times suffer a little.

[Shawn Baker]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21 ... 43/related

Strength training and 2k score

[Shawn Baker]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23 ... 43/related

Low reps seemed to better correlate with 2k/ 500m scores

[Shawn Baker]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eRPpDa035Ec

Canadian National team and 3 stroke max wattage

[teddyDK]

From a different perspective, here are two out of 5 articles (3 more to come soon) from Danish Indoor rowing team member and fitness science author Kenneth Jay

http://cardiocode.dk/blog/files/2ebeaf0 ... 18-15.html

http://cardiocode.dk/blog/files/174791e ... c7-16.html

Kenneth havent rowing very much. just a couple off years ago it was kettlebells that all his writing and training was about. So i dont know if i will take his articles too serious. I know many danish rowers and the thing they do is alot different that what Kenneth recommends.

His rowing recommenddations is also alot different that what is on this site.