New Rower, runner...

[LarryRow]

Hello,

I used to try to run seriously in my mid-40s, my best age-graded times back then were 5:58 for the mile, and 21:18 for the 5k, ~67% age graded times, but I was 46 years old then, and am 51 now.

Where can I expect to get on the erg? What should I shoot for? Right now, I'm trying to row 7000m a day and am concentrating on improving my form.

My stroke rate is around 24-28 spm and my 500m time is around 2:50-3:00, I know, pathetic. Anyway, I can keep at it for 45-50 minutes.

Any advice?

Best,

Larry

[jadomatis]

Try to get a video of your stroke to post here for critique. 2:50 to 3:00 for a 500m split is very slow. If you get winded doing that chances are you are putting a lot of effort in but not being very efficient with the stroke itself. Fixing your form you will prolly notice HUGE gains very quickly. If you haven't already, spend some time watching the training videos available on the main Concept2 site especially the ones that talk about troubleshooting the most common stroke errors.

[LarryRow]

Try to get a video of your stroke to post here for critique. 2:50 to 3:00 for a 500m split is very slow. If you get winded doing that chances are you are putting a lot of effort in but not being very efficient with the stroke itself. Fixing your form you will prolly notice HUGE gains very quickly. If you haven't already, spend some time watching the training videos available on the main Concept2 site especially the ones that talk about troubleshooting the most common stroke errors.

Thanks, I'm actually not winded at all, just trying to get all of the pieces of the strokes correct and that seems to take time. You know, don't race to the catch, take time going back to the front. I'm trying hard to pull mainly with my legs, then core, then arms. I'll try to get a video. I have been watching some training videos.

Should I start with fifty minute sessions at this slow pace or try to push faster in short sessions? Damper is at 4. I know the machine calculates power across different damper settings so it does not matter which I choose.

This kind of workout is very different from my track and tempo workouts which used to put a serious hurt on me, with a very high heart rate. I'm sure I can get there on the erg,but erging feels more like weightlifting.

[hjs]

Try to get a video of your stroke to post here for critique. 2:50 to 3:00 for a 500m split is very slow. If you get winded doing that chances are you are putting a lot of effort in but not being very efficient with the stroke itself. Fixing your form you will prolly notice HUGE gains very quickly. If you haven't already, spend some time watching the training videos available on the main Concept2 site especially the ones that talk about troubleshooting the most common stroke errors.

Thanks, I'm actually not winded at all, just trying to get all of the pieces of the strokes correct and that seems to take time. You know, don't race to the catch, take time going back to the front. I'm trying hard to pull mainly with my legs, then core, then arms. I'll try to get a video. I have been watching some training videos.

Should I start with fifty minute sessions at this slow pace or try to push faster in short sessions? Damper is at 4. I know the machine calculates power across different damper settings so it does not matter which I choose.

This kind of workout is very different from my track and tempo workouts which used to put a serious hurt on me, with a very high heart rate. I'm sure I can get there on the erg,but erging feels more like weightlifting.

Looking at the rate 24/28 and pace you get out of it, something must go wrong. I think you are proberly smaller, which is a disadvantage on the erg but still, the paces are off.

First try rowing strapless, this forces you to end the stroke, at the moment you get very little in the chain.

[LarryRow]

Try to get a video of your stroke to post here for critique. 2:50 to 3:00 for a 500m split is very slow. If you get winded doing that chances are you are putting a lot of effort in but not being very efficient with the stroke itself. Fixing your form you will prolly notice HUGE gains very quickly. If you haven't already, spend some time watching the training videos available on the main Concept2 site especially the ones that talk about troubleshooting the most common stroke errors.

Thanks, I'm actually not winded at all, just trying to get all of the pieces of the strokes correct and that seems to take time. You know, don't race to the catch, take time going back to the front. I'm trying hard to pull mainly with my legs, then core, then arms. I'll try to get a video. I have been watching some training videos.

Should I start with fifty minute sessions at this slow pace or try to push faster in short sessions? Damper is at 4. I know the machine calculates power across different damper settings so it does not matter which I choose.

This kind of workout is very different from my track and tempo workouts which used to put a serious hurt on me, with a very high heart rate. I'm sure I can get there on the erg,but erging feels more like weightlifting.

Looking at the rate 24/28 and pace you get out of it, something must go wrong. I think you are proberly smaller, which is a disadvantage on the erg but still, the paces are off.

First try rowing strapless, this forces you to end the stroke, at the moment you get very little in the chain.

Ha, I'm 6' 2", 180 pounds, not really small. Ok, I'm an awful rower, no mystery there. I'll try strapless but will probably fly across the room.

[Cyclingman1]

2:50 for 500m for a 6'2", 180lb, 51 male is just not right. That is old lady time.

The most obvious thing is that you are using no force with your legs when you push off from the catch. You must be doing all arms. I say stare at the PM with time per 500m on the screen. Experiment with each stroke. What makes you go faster? The basic stroke is lean forward at the catch, push off hard with the legs, keeping the arms virtually straight. Once the legs are nearly extended, rotate back to the rear and pull hands to sternum. Recover by quickly pushing arms forward, rotate back forward, then compress legs.

There is just no way that you would not be below 2:00 for 500m.

[hjs]

Ha, I'm 6' 2", 180 pounds, not really small. Ok, I'm an awful rower, no mystery there. I'll try strapless but will probably fly across the room.

Haha, you should be able to pull those paces with 1 hand easily.
You will fly off, thats the point If you pull the way you should, that fly off energy goes in the chain.

Next time. Start rowing, strapless, rate low, 20 is fine, start increesing your pace every minute, but keep the rate at 20. No doubt pretty soon you will start feeling the stroke getting heavier. Once you feel that, you have a rough feeling how you should row. Its driving hard... And very relax coming up again, with a long stroke.

[LarryRow]

Old lady times, I love it. What a humbling experience.

So, thanks for the advice to go strapless! I just did 5000m strapless, still around 2:40 and 28spm.

But, boy, when I strapped in I was hitting 2:30 and 30+spm.

Then, I did another 2000m, and for the last 500m or so, I pushed my legs much harder and hit 2:16@32-36 spm.

I have very little upper body strength, a classic long distance runner's problem. I know 50 year old guys who can probably run a 4:45 mile and admit to having trouble lifting the groceries.

Should I have said anything to the guy next to me who did ten minutes at 3:30 to 4:15 and gave up? I think the erg machine must be the most hated machine in gym, or the least understood machine.

So, what kind of time/distance should I shoot for?

[hjs]

So, what kind of time/distance should I shoot for?

For now try to stay strapless, keep 2.30 and really work on lowering your spm. In 6 weeks you should be able to row 30 min, rate 20 below 2.30 pace. Don,t force it, it will come naturally.

In gyms ignore almost everybody on the erg.

[Citroen]

I have very little upper body strength, a classic long distance runner's problem. I know 50 year old guys who can probably run a 4:45 mile and admit to having trouble lifting the groceries.

That's not important, because rowing is 70% legs, it's not an arms sport. You have a serious technique problem.

Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqVmMd7FdAA it may help.

[LarryRow]

So, what kind of time/distance should I shoot for?

For now try to stay strapless, keep 2.30 and really work on lowering your spm. In 6 weeks you should be able to row 30 min, rate 20 below 2.30 pace. Don,t force it, it will come naturally.

In gyms ignore almost everybody on the erg.

Ok, I will try your approach. I'm having a hard time seeing how I will generate a 2:30 pace at 20 spm, strapless, but I suppose you're trying to improve the drive in my legs.

I agree that my technique is lousy, the only comfort is seeing people who are worse. Watching people in the gym amounts to a master class in how not to row.

Thanks for that video, I have watched it, and ones like it, and have been trying to get my technique down. I had read that rowing was 60% legs, 20% core, and 20% arms, but your point is well taken.
Still, without a strong core, and somewhat strong arms, I don't think I can be a decent rower, can I?

[thecrashton]

Lol
I got the same 'old lady' comments on my first posts too. Everyone was new to the erg at some point, and likely pulled god-awful old-lady times themselves.

I started off rowing thinking 2:30 was a great 500m split too. I'm still pretty new to this, but turns out I didn't have any crazy technique problems (not saying i'm perfect but i dont have some terrible flaw that causes me to row super bad times), or old lady genes, I was just massively undershooting, and overestimating my efforts. I didn't know how to work hard on the erg.

Henry gave you great advice. Listen to him, his, along with a few others', advice has helped me immensely. Row strapless and that will help you with your sequencing. Lower your rate. SPM is not a measure of how hard you're working. Take your time on the way back up the slide... 26 rate is not taking your time

[LarryRow]

Lol
I got the same 'old lady' comments on my first posts too. Everyone was new to the erg at some point, and likely pulled god-awful old-lady times themselves.

I started off rowing thinking 2:30 was a great 500m split too. I'm still pretty new to this, but turns out I didn't have any crazy technique problems (not saying i'm perfect but i dont have some terrible flaw that causes me to row super bad times), or old lady genes, I was just massively undershooting, and overestimating my efforts. I didn't know how to work hard on the erg.

Henry gave you great advice. Listen to him, his, along with a few others', advice has helped me immensely. Row strapless and that will help you with your sequencing. Lower your rate. SPM is not a measure of how hard you're working. Take your time on the way back up the slide... 26 rate is not taking your time

Thanks for the encouragement, it is much appreciated! I'm definitely following Henry's device. I did not know that 26 was not taking my time, LOL.

I've had my butt handed to me so many times when running that I'm not upset at all to learn I'm pulling old lady times on the erg. I'm hoping that rowing beats me up less than running, during which I endured a string of injuries, such as, stress fractures, broken toes (ok, I kicked a chair by accident), chronically sore quads, and plantar fasciitis. That's not to mention the insomnia.

Now if I could just convince my wife to let me park a Concept 2 Model E in the living room of our small apartment as sort of a large coffee table. She likes the Frank Underwood special but the Concept 2 has more cred, I guess.

[Bob S.]

Should I have said anything to the guy next to me who did ten minutes at 3:30 to 4:15 and gave up? I think the erg machine must be the most hated machine in gym, or the least understood machine.

Never offer advice at a gym. Unsolicited advice is rarely appreciated. Least understood? Very likely.

[Bob S.]

As a runner, you probably have the leg strength to have a strong start on the drive. But be absolutely sure that the handle is keeping up with your hips. Otherwise, you end up "shooting the slide" which results in losing a lot of that important leg power. Arm strength does not not come into play in that problem, it is a matter of allowing your body to swing a bit more forward at the start of the drive. The Brits call it "bum-shooting," which has nothing to do with marksmanship.