Pete Plan Autumn 2015

[Tyche]

Did a steady 8k today @ 2:07 with 22spm, focused on posture of my back and tried not to arch as i know i'm doing that too much,

Combined it with some situps w/med ball, roman chairs and leg curls.

[G-dub]

W2: speed pyramid

Previous best: 144.6 r34 mostly
Today: 144.6 r32-34 until the end

250- 144.8
500- 145.0
750- 145.0
1000- 145.8
750- 1:45.5
500- 143.2
250- 137.4

The first 750 was the hardest of all of them and spooked the 1K. Still not banging it smoothly all the way. But I'm not compelled to whine about this one

[Fish out of water]

W5D1 Pete beginner. 7K @ 2:34 with 15 SPM. HR 154 at end so that was pretty good. Getting stronger and fitter I think.

[jackarabit]

I've come around to thinking that the combo of speed shock and intervals of increasing distance up the front side of the pyramid make it difficult to hold pace. Probably obvious and felt by all? I believe 3k+ warmup at UT2 paces interspersed with short power on bursts of 30 to 45" is helping me avoid that initial speed shock. The Eddy Fletcher warmup with paces stipulated by reference to the rower's 2k performance is what I use. The Fletcher race (2k) warmup is 19' 45". At my paces, that's 3800m of warmup. 2k takes you half the distance across the top level of the pyramid so it seems to me the Fletcher is an appropriate warmup for this short interval workout totalling 4k. If 19:45 feels overly long, it's easy to omit one 4' segment. With the big rest cushions after the "summit," the backside is a ski jump by comparison to the slog at the beginning.

[Tyche]

I've come around to thinking that the combo of speed shock and intervals of increasing distance up the front side of the pyramid make it difficult to hold pace. Probably obvious and felt by all? I believe 3k+ warmup at UT2 paces interspersed with short power on bursts of 30 to 45" is helping me avoid that initial speed shock. The Eddy Fletcher warmup with paces stipulated by reference to the rower's 2k performance is what I use. The Fletcher race (2k) warmup is 19' 45". At my paces, that's 3800m of warmup. 2k takes you half the distance across the top level of the pyramid so it seems to me the Fletcher is an appropriate warmup for this short interval workout totalling 4k. If 19:45 feels overly long, it's easy to omit one 4' segment. With the big rest cushions after the "summit," the backside is a ski jump by comparison to the slog at the beginning.

Mhm, 19:45 seems overly long, my w/u is basically 500m maybe 1000m with some technique prep if I'm in the mood. I know i need to work on that

[bisqeet]

I've come around to thinking that the combo of speed shock and intervals of increasing distance up the front side of the pyramid make it difficult to hold pace. Probably obvious and felt by all? I believe 3k+ warmup at UT2 paces interspersed with short power on bursts of 30 to 45" is helping me avoid that initial speed shock. The Eddy Fletcher warmup with paces stipulated by reference to the rower's 2k performance is what I use. The Fletcher race (2k) warmup is 19' 45". At my paces, that's 3800m of warmup. 2k takes you half the distance across the top level of the pyramid so it seems to me the Fletcher is an appropriate warmup for this short interval workout totalling 4k. If 19:45 feels overly long, it's easy to omit one 4' segment. With the big rest cushions after the "summit," the backside is a ski jump by comparison to the slog at the beginning.

I like that warmup - its a bit complex and requires sticky notes to follow, but is pretty effective.
I do admit I only use it if the session is itself is short. At 5k its usually about 2-3k longer than my normal warmup.

I try to limit my sessions to HM distances

[sander]

Nice Chris!

Mike, the steady rows, too me, are confusing in the plan. He seems to encourage a pace that is more difficult than needs to be. Or it is easy to assume that. Or we get all amped up that each workout needs to be a test. Chris, Greg and Henry got me on 2K plus 25ish after we finished the PP last time (each said something slightly different). I vary between 2:08 (+23) and 2:12 - sometimes even 2:15 (+30) and I don't think there would be much to gain by going faster. If it gets too boring, I throw in some pick ups. These rows are not supposed to be too taxing it seems to me. They enable harder work on the hard days and work the aerobic system. You should be able to carry on a conversation and feel good afterwards. Sorry if I'm saying something you already know and are doing, but it took a long time for the light bulb to go off for me that slow and comfortable is still good. Hopefully, Chris Greg or Henry can support this.

I agree intellectually with the idea that you can't go too slow, but I still struggle with it in practice. The issue is that I also believe in the overload principle. That essentially, you need to continue to increase the training load (either in time or intensity) to see continued improvement. So, I am trying to gently nudge the power up for steady state sessions without turning them into something entirely different. I think you can do this either by tracking heart rate or by measuring lactates. If you limit the pace to less than about 75% to 80% of HRR, you're probably OK. And if you keep lactate levels below 2.0 you're golden. The advantage of this is that you have a goal to shoot for in steady state training beyond just putting in the meters, and you have a way to measure progressive improvement in aerobic capability.

The problem that I have with using a set number like 2K - 25 is that it is quite different from person to person and even can change depending on how aerobic or anaerobic you are currently. And I've found that the difference in power between something that doesn't provide much (if any) training benefit and something that is too hard is only about 10 watts (or about 2 seconds on pace). So, I agree that is better to err on the side of slowness, but I think that you might not see a lot of training effect if you are consistently way below a target power.

Interesting discussion. I am currently also struggling to find a good SS pace. I used to do it at 2k+20 to 2k+25 with good success. Recently I have been starting to measure lactate and the very preliminary and initial results seem to suggest I could go faster. I do believe the "able to carry on a conversation and feel good afterwards" is a good subjective measure, but I have found out that at 2k+15s I can do that as well. It's just slightly harder.

[sander]

There has been chatter brewing about the need for PP. I've started this, assuming that y'all will want to do as as our merry band did this summer and have a separate space to pontificate. I think some said that November 14 was the start date (Galeere, Jack, Greg, me, maybe some others that I have forgotten). If some want to get rolling earlier (Damien, Chris, Ed, others) no worries - we might think about just jumping in where your are or whatever. Or If most everyone wants to start earlier, lets pick a new date. Or it can just be willy nilly, which isn't as much fun. Anyway,I thought I would open up the thread to start getting our heads into it.

A bit late finding this discussion. I will set a notification to see what people are doing here. I am incorporating WP and PP elements in my personal training plan. Not doing the WP L4 as prescribed any more and basically just kept the hard distance and interval sessions. For those who are interested you can follow my progress on rowsandall.wordpress.com.

[jackarabit]

Tyche writes:

Mhm, 19:45 seems overly long, my w/u is basically 500m maybe 1000m with some technique prep if I'm in the mood. I know i need to work on that

Marston recommends "2-3k with bursts" (p. 6, Pete Plan, Lunch Hour Blog). Tyche, the paces that the Fletcher formula would generate for you based on your 2k pace would be faster than mine so you are correct that you would not require twenty minutes to do 3k.

In addition, I imported this warmup into my training. I think it's worth taking some trouble to review occasionally what "doing a plan" means--whether a fairly close adherence to the author's thinking and recs is necessary or no. Or can we pick and choose at will from many advisors and sources? Or ignore parts of a plan we don't find necessary or productive? Marston himself was "selective" of the advice he took or put back on the shelf. Maybe more of this at a later date?

Warmup is often simply made a part of steady state pieces. I find that it is possible for me to go directly to a top UT2 pace without warmup and suffer no handle down or dnf-type consequences. I can't omit warmup for paces above anaerobic threshold. Generally, my experience is that cold starts and perfunctory warmups are tempting to busy people but do nothing to optimize performance. To adopt the view that warmup is not necessary is also to throw away one very important key to avoiding injury and undesirable stress.

Jack

[hjs]

Interesting discussion. I am currently also struggling to find a good SS pace. I used to do it at 2k+20 to 2k+25 with good success. Recently I have been starting to measure lactate and the very preliminary and initial results seem to suggest I could go faster. I do believe the "able to carry on a conversation and feel good afterwards" is a good subjective measure, but I have found out that at 2k+15s I can do that as well. It's just slightly harder.

My 2 cents, I do not use hf, lactate. Very toughly I use L4 paces, those are for me certainly not recovery or ut2 paces.

My softes sessions are rate 21 9k pace around 1.55. This is 2k plus 19 ish..

L4 ish work is a bit longer, 40/45 minutes. Rates are mostly 18 and 20, used to use 16 also but found that not comfortable.
18 is 1.58 ish, 20 is 154 ish. Being 2k plus 22 and 18.

If I would rate higher those paces would be a lot comfortabler. So pace alone without rate is not enough precise.

During these rows my breathing needs to stay calm. Often the last 10/15 minutes begin to become less easy.

I don,t do any sessions above 50/60 minutes, make 50/60k a week, overall. And have 5 sessions per week. No wu or cd for the base sessions, just start and hit the paces within 20 strokes orso.

[mdpfirrman]

W2: speed pyramid

Previous best: 144.6 r34 mostly
Today: 144.6 r32-34 until the end

250- 144.8
500- 145.0
750- 145.0
1000- 145.8
750- 1:45.5
500- 143.2
250- 137.4

The first 750 was the hardest of all of them and spooked the 1K. Still not banging it smoothly all the way. But I'm not compelled to whine about this one

I want to be like you G-Dub when I turn 53 in two years...

Nice times, you're crushing it right now!

As far as the WU discussion, I'm terrible about it. I try to get to the gym and back as fast as possible. House doesn't have a great place for a Concept2 (and we want to move next year so we're trying to reduce things we have to move cross country). If I had a machine at home, would certainly probably take more time. Something for me to think about Jack (ample warmup).

[sander]

Interesting discussion. I am currently also struggling to find a good SS pace. I used to do it at 2k+20 to 2k+25 with good success. Recently I have been starting to measure lactate and the very preliminary and initial results seem to suggest I could go faster. I do believe the "able to carry on a conversation and feel good afterwards" is a good subjective measure, but I have found out that at 2k+15s I can do that as well. It's just slightly harder.

My 2 cents, I do not use hf, lactate. Very toughly I use L4 paces, those are for me certainly not recovery or ut2 paces.

My softes sessions are rate 21 9k pace around 1.55. This is 2k plus 19 ish..

L4 ish work is a bit longer, 40/45 minutes. Rates are mostly 18 and 20, used to use 16 also but found that not comfortable.
18 is 1.58 ish, 20 is 154 ish. Being 2k plus 22 and 18.

If I would rate higher those paces would be a lot comfortabler. So pace alone without rate is not enough precise.

During these rows my breathing needs to stay calm. Often the last 10/15 minutes begin to become less easy.

I don,t do any sessions above 50/60 minutes, make 50/60k a week, overall. And have 5 sessions per week. No wu or cd for the base sessions, just start and hit the paces within 20 strokes orso.

Dank je. Interesting input.

[G-dub]

Thanks Mike - I got a head start on you. You will know doubt catch up and pass me like many seem to do.

Jack, good call on the warm up for the pyramid. I shortened it a little this time thinking that the ramp up would be the warm up, but that first 750 sort of hits you pretty quick. Next time I will get a better sweat going.

I just looked at my splits for the 4 X 2K from last time @ 1:54.5 (my current 5K). I was sort of hoping I would see it at 1:56ish and that it would allow me a little leeway! This one will be a doozy on Wednesday. This doggone plan keeps wratchiting up the intensity, no!

[Galeere]

Thanks Mike - I got a head start on you. You will know doubt catch up and pass me like many seem to do.

Jack, good call on the warm up for the pyramid. I shortened it a little this time thinking that the ramp up would be the warm up, but that first 750 sort of hits you pretty quick. Next time I will get a better sweat going.

I just looked at my splits for the 4 X 2K from last time @ 1:54.5 (my current 5K). I was sort of hoping I would see it at 1:56ish and that it would allow me a little leeway! This one will be a doozy on Wednesday. This doggone plan keeps wratchiting up the intensity, no!

Nice going so far Glenn. Maybe you can make a compromise, start @ 1:55 and make sure to go negative .

[G-dub]

My thoughts too Hardy - 1:55 start (which ends up at 1:54.999). If I remember correctly we were all jacked up truck hen we did the second round of 4 X 2K's last time. I think Ed called us out for being sissies and Jack was busting my tail for something or other related to my always wanting to bend the rules. If I recall we spent a few pages getting all riled up