New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[hjs]

Thank you Lindsay and Henry.
And yes, Henry I see 1500 and 1000 repeats in my near future!
Damien

No no, thats not what I said or ment at all. One only one

I should have been more clear: 1k's and 1500s plus LSD to bring down my mid-distance results through November - including the beginning of Henry's beloved 500s. Then hard speed work plus LSD through Feb.
Damien

Was just kidding ofcourse. Do what you like and think is best. My original comment was only tongue in cheek about your slower getting results on paper, which is pretty funny.

And Jim, good to see you lurking

[Edward4492]

Wombat, lots of ways to get the end result. For me personally my best times have come when there's been a distance component. When I dropped the long stuff and focused solely on short fast stuff I started to fade. Also, when I've done nothing but long slow distance....I had trouble going fast. For a while I tried the bicycle racing model of doing "base" miles first then adding in speed work, didn't seem to work.Interestingly our local race team was always looked down upon as being too hard core. Every Saturday (52 weeks a years, if there's no snow or ice these guys ride) is a brutal high intensity 50 mile ride. Our team wins....a lot ! (not me, I was strictly Cat 3 pack fill). Multiple state champions every year. Over thirty in the past 5 years. We even had a husband and wife win State RR titles in separate races on the same day. And Jim, an advocate of high intensity, came into erging with a highly developed aerobic base. He's a bit of an outlier.

Right now I feel like I'm improving on a diet of two 15k's on the weekend then a mixture of varying intensitys during the week (rojabo programming). Time will tell, more specifically my 2k time will tell. I just checked my log and was surprised to see I've been doing the 15's for nine weeks now, no recovery or adverse issues.

This is what makes the forums great, lots of ideas and methods and experimentation. I'm constantly modifying and tweaking my approach; looking to grab that last one or two percent of performance (as is everyone else). You'll get no arguments from me.

[Wombat63]

Edward
I totally agree....it needs to be mixed. As for the aerobic base....the body adapts to the work being placed upon it. You could cut 10k after 10k at 200w becoming quite fit and still fall in a heap trying 2ks at 370w. Ultimately the training should be reflective of the overall goal. 2ks is both aerobic and if done competitively, very intense. To be more successful at this distance I would think becoming accustomed to higher levels of intensity will pay off more than becoming used to longer, calmer rows. It may have even been yourself that mentioned the ease of churning out long rows yet the thought of the 2k raised a level of trepidation. I am currently keeping my longish rows but focussing on making 1:34 more comfortable. I think this will pay off both physically and mentally come race day.

[hjs]

Edward
I totally agree....it needs to be mixed. As for the aerobic base....the body adapts to the work being placed upon it. You could cut 10k after 10k at 200w becoming quite fit and still fall in a heap trying 2ks at 370w. Ultimately the training should be reflective of the overall goal. 2ks is both aerobic and if done competitively, very intense. To be more successful at this distance I would think becoming accustomed to higher levels of intensity will pay off more than becoming used to longer, calmer rows. It may have even been yourself that mentioned the ease of churning out long rows yet the thought of the 2k raised a level of trepidation. I am currently keeping my longish rows but focussing on making 1:34 more comfortable. I think this will pay off both physically and mentally come race day.

But...

Toprowers who pull the best scores do not train that way. Since the current volume based training has started results became 5/10% faster. The result of a big focus on aerobic fitness.

Training for aerobic and anaerobic works very different. In 6 weeks our anaerobic system can be trained, after that time it won,t improve anymore. You can at best keep it at that level.
The aerobic system reacts much slower, it can improve slowly for years.

That does not mean one should not train strenght and speed, but with moderation. Also both systems work against each other. Training speed will lower aerobic fitness and vice versa. So depending on the time of season training should be used.

Other points are ofcourse, how much time you have for training and what personal strenght do you have?

Wombat is dweeping a bit with Jim, but ignores ones big difference. He is pretty fast, relative good 100 meter and not great on distance work. Jim on the other hand, is very slow (relative) on the short stuff, and strong on the middle distances, with 2k and 5k speed very close together. Long work not so great but that proberly due to his low volume.

Two athletes which such different strenghts should not expect the same result from one programme.

[Wombat63]

Oooh
Jumping to conclusions there Henry...
My long rows seem to smoke most here....maybe yours too..
Not having patience for the long rows is different to not having the ability.
I would happily back myself for a sub 1h20 half marathon without ever having done one....I just wouldn't enjoy it.
The 2k is highly aerobic and relies heavily on fitness. The anaerobic system is important but still far from the key player here.
The aerobic system can be taught to work at a higher level of intensity...and that is what I am about.
I didn't really appreciate your comments re Jim Gratten. Poor form really...

[jadomatis]

Been using a Model E for about 2 months now on weekdays. I do a 30 min workout each of those days. I'm ~6 months post-op from having a vertical sleeve gastrectomy. Down from 360lbs to 225lbs. For the first time today, I set a new personal best for my 30min row and actually broke 7500m in that 30mins. I'm ecstatic. I've been lurking quite a bit on the forum here. Lots of good info for those that want to dig in. Appreciate it a lot.

[Edward4492]

Wombat, your comment about the 2k's (re: myself) was correct. But I think it's more because it's the only distance that really matters to me. Don't know how long you've been following my posts, but I race quite often in season although I'm relatively new to the sport. I started in November of 2013, so just about two years and will clear 5 million meters this week. Twelve "official" races to date and a couple of crossfit comps and of course the weekend challenges. I love erg racing and as you correctly stated....nothing harder than a full out balls to the wall 2k. I get much more jumpy when I have a PR attempt by myself than I do at the events. I was the same way as a bike racer..I just love the competitive end of it. And racing as a LWT, there's the added stress of having to watch what I eat.....52 weeks a year. I never let myself get more than 5 lbs or so over weight. So I need to balance energy intake with training. It's another reason I like the long rows; takes the edge off the need to diet as much. You might say why not just eat what you want and go open class. The heaviest I've ever been (while in shape) is 185. That's no man's land for erging. I'm competitive as a LWT (if your curious, check my ranked pieces, 50-59LWT edward peterson, I'll be 59 in Dec). Still sitting 8th in non-athlon. As a HWT I would get crushed. As you mentioned, part of your aversion to long pieces is your aversion to long pieces! Nothing wrong with that, I mean at the end of the day this is really just a hobby. Although for us it's a pretty damn serious one! But we simply are not going to train in a way that we don't enjoy. I like it all. The short fast stuff. The long steady stuff.And my training log indicates value in the long rows. But as I continue to re-iterate, only twice a week. And there is certainly a mental-toughness component to sitting down and punching in "15000" and getting to work. I would not consider it easy to pull for an hour at 80% HR.

With all that said, I'll let ya know if it's working when I pull my next 2k test in two weeks. 7:04, we're on track. Much slower than that? Maybe I'll be doing intervals with you and Jim.

[Wombat63]

Edward
Good luck with the time trial. I'm sure you will do well.

[hjs]

Oooh
Jumping to conclusions there Henry...
My long rows seem to smoke most here....maybe yours too..
Not having patience for the long rows is different to not having the ability.
I would happily back myself for a sub 1h20 half marathon without ever having done one....I just wouldn't enjoy it.
The 2k is highly aerobic and relies heavily on fitness. The anaerobic system is important but still far from the key player here.
The aerobic system can be taught to work at a higher level of intensity...and that is what I am about.
I didn't really appreciate your comments re Jim Gratten. Poor form really...

If I am correct you pulled 14.8 lately and failed to pull 8300 on the 30 min. Those are not in line, see the rankings.
A 1.20 hm is not fast and again you are missing the point, its not about TT long work, but the training done.

And aerobic work can be taught ??? It can get better, and it known how thats it done. No via black hole training, but by specific working the aerobic system while keeping the rest out. Like you say, the 2k is highly aerobic, yes thats the whole point.

Why you feel the need to compare the two of us is beyond me. Its about general training, thats says nothing about two people. I myself am certainly not a good example for any training form, and you could know why I you bodered, so won,t explain that.

And about Jim, I have nothing against him, find him a fun guy to have around and only wish him the best. But often really disagree about training. But do expect to see him back. And injurees are part of the deal and result of training and on the bike ofcourse crashing. If you can,t handle the heat etc...

And ofcourse also for, don,t know you, but certainly wish you the best. If you get pb s I will certainly given you props. Although I think you could do better a bit.

[Wombat63]

Henry
You pick the parts that you wish to attack and discount the overall. I mentioned I found the 8300 was going to be out of reach due to the previous weight workout leaving the quads a little tight. It was pretty intense and perhaps I was trying to bite off a little too much after such an event. Don't worry, its very achievable. You seem to like to tell everyone how they should do things....You say I could do more......I'm putting up.....do your part.

[hjs]

Henry
You pick the parts that you wish to attack and discount the overall. I mentioned I found the 8300 was going to be out of reach due to the previous weight workout leaving the quads a little tight. It was pretty intense and perhaps I was trying to bite off a little too much after such an event. Don't worry, its very achievable. You seem to like to tell everyone how they should do things....You say I could do more......I'm putting up.....do your part.

A bit true, but so do you.... I don,t know what you mean by overall. I only know what You tell me and my comments are based on that, if you do stuff and don,t talk about it

I am picking apart nothing, I only say accourding to current knowlegde the best 2k is got by building a strong as possible aerobic systym. Those are simple facts. There are simply no guys/girls among the very best who do not train that way on the 2k.

I found 8300 indeed not so fast for you, should be relative doable for you that is. But thats the only 30 min I have seen from you. And don,t know you name so can,t look you up in the rankings. I see people cal you Terry, I see no such name ranked.

I am doing my part. My training is fully open for the last 10 years orso, I also do the ctc pretty serious every month so should there one a lost soul who cares for a strange reason, its all in the open.

Ps Terry Hey ? found it ranked a few years back.

Funny thing, that Terry has times very close to mine, he only is a bit older and I am a bit smaller.

[Rockin Roland]

Today I did another C2 time trial at the rowing club, this time over 6000m. It was another season PB for me in a time of 20:51.9 at average pace of 1:44.3 @ 32 spm. That's a 5 second improvement and number one in the C2 rankings for 50-59 age group.

I had a major drama along the way with 1500m to go when my Suunto HR chest strap snapped and feel backwards onto the rail and under the seat wheels. I lost valuable seconds trying to free it, so next time I'm good for a time in the 20:40s.

Next week it's 5000m for me. Should be an easy season PB because my current time in the rankings is crap.

[bisqeet]

Today I did another C2 time trial at the rowing club, this time over 6000m. It was another season PB for me in a time of 20:51.9 at average pace of 1:44.3 @ 32 spm. That's a 5 second improvement and number one in the C2 rankings for 50-59 age group.

I had a major drama along the way with 1500m to go when my Suunto HR chest strap snapped and feel backwards onto the rail and under the seat wheels. I lost valuable seconds trying to free it, so next time I'm good for a time in the 20:40s.

Next week it's 5000m for me. Should be an easy season PB because my current time in the rankings is crap.

stop that already... embarrasing us "young uns" with those times wicked timing - hope to be half as good

[Hillclimber]

1:00:00.0 - 16,111m
Lindsay, thanks for the 1x15/1r pace insight for the October CTC challenge. Hope to give that a go this week - Forum Flyers!
Damien

My pleasure Damien - it will be interesting to see how you nail it.
That is a very good 1 hour BTW congrats

CTC Oct. challenge: 1:37 avg
Lindsay, I could not find your post in which you shared your thoughts on 1 x 15 / 1r. But vaguely recall 2k -3'. And I'm at 1:40-41 now, so targeted 1:37 and nailed it. Started with a few 1:39s to wu; some low 1:38s; five 1:37.0s; then the last four:
1:35.8
1:35.8
1:35.5
1:34.9
Interesting session, and i can appreciate why you favor the 1 x something crazy / 1r. Felt good to pull at race rate; good to see those pace numbers on the monitor. Will certainly give this another go before month's end.

Shameless FF team promotion spot:
CTC and other monthly challenges are a great way to mix up the training. Join a team (such as Forum Flyers) and give it a go. This is my 10th ctc with the team. Seven teammates have participated in more than 100 CTCs. That's cool. Our team has a couple of its own threads on a one of the forums, where friends are made, and advice and support are freely given.
Damien

[Edward4492]

Nice work Damien, starting to shape up for "B"'s. I may add this one to my race prep.