Best way to combine weight training and erging

[bonefixer]

My main aim is cardiovascular fitness, and so most of my training will be on the rower. I'm keen to do weight training too - the aims being a balanced physique and to improve my power on the erg.

I can usually manage 4 sessions a week, each between 1 and 1.5 hours. What's the best combination of weights and erging? At the moment I always row first, so depending what I've done I sometimes can't manage much of a weights routine. A 2K blast for example wrecks any other training I might wish to do. Am I better off doing 3 full-on erg sessions and 1 predominantly weights, or should I carry on as I am, with some weight training following immediately after my rowing piece?

[Wombat63]

There has been a lot of talk regarding "Afterburn effect" with weights. Basically its high intensity training. Reasonable weight that allows for fast reps and reduced / little time between sets. Done correctly you can knock over your weights in 20 mins - half an hour and feel hammered. The intensity will provide greater cardio and much greater weight control. I now follow a powerlifting regimen with dead lifts, squats, bench press with a focused area thrown in. Arms, shoulders etc. Do your rowing first if that is your priority, then weights. The power lifting routine provides an opportunity for weights to be done every second day. This allows for both recovery and total body targeting.

[hasto]

The best way to combine weight training & rowing (cardio) is to do them on different days. Doing them both on the same day will have a detrimental effect on your muscle building/maintenance. Build muscle on your gym days (and burn some fat) and burn the most fat with cardio on alternate days.

[hjs]

If you only have 4 training days you must combine. Upperbody will not be a problem, legs will be different. I can tow 100 % with sore upperbody muscle, much less with legs.

[christopherregisryan]

The answer here depends somewhat upon the work you are doing in the weight room. If you are doing high volume work, you should be able to combine it with your erg workouts. Once a week, I do a rowing class followed by a CrossFit class to keep balanced and to maintain power. So far, I have kept my short distance speed and have picked up endurance. For many years, I did low volume (1 - 5 rep range) weight training. I found that those workouts could not be done effectively when combined with rowing workouts. My weightlifting workouts would get their own day (plus recovery). I would do some erg sprinting as a finisher (high drag 250's or even 10 pull intervals). The biggest thing to keep in mind about weightlifting as you get older is that it takes longer and longer to recover. We talk about recovering from AT and faster erg workouts. A heavy lift takes even more recovery time. Moreover, cheating on the recovery defeats the whole purpose of the workout (to get stronger and more powerful). Because of the recovery requirements, I stopped the low volume (heavy) lifting about a year ago to focus on my aerobic endurance. I am happy with the high volume CrossFit class as a compromise. I find the recovery requirements to be manageable (usually a recovery row on the following day and UT2 steady state workouts on days 2 and 3). By Day 4, I am ready to take on a Pete Plan interval workout with good results.

[Edward4492]

I'll go rogue here.....if your stated goals are a 6:40 2k and an 18:00 5k, forget the weights and just erg. Or, periodize it (summer is/was a good time). If you're going to race at CRASH B's or over the winter I'd be off the weights by the end of October.

If you're training for a PR at 500m, the weight training is part of the program. Over all fitness? Definitely. A 2k is in the range of 80% aerobic. The very fastest erg high mileage.

All depends what your objectives are. I stopped the crossfit simply because I could not recover enough to do my erg work outs the way I wanted. Another issue for me is weight. I race LWT so even extra muscle presents a problem. I weigh in at 163-164 at well under 10% bodyfat, Can't afford an extra 3-4 pounds of mass. Of course for most people reading this, any muscle added (naturally of course) helps.

No arguements.....just another perspective.

[Bob S.]

Another perspective is that rowing/erging is not really a complete exercise. A well balanced program should include exercise of the muscles that are not used much in rowing, especially the pectorals and triceps. It makes sense to me to have a weight program that complements rowing/erging. However, that does not mean heavy weights, low reps, and maxing out. The muscles used in rowing are getting hundreds or even thousands of reps per workout in most programs and any complementary resistance program should incorporate the same thing. That kind of training will not introduce a lot of heavy bulk. It is a different story for ergers who are keen on 500m and shorter pieces. Of course, most of the people in that group are generally heavily into weight work to begin with and have well-rounded resistance routines.

[jackarabit]

+1 for the complementary, or balancing, approach in which the muscles NOT used in your sport get the weight room treatment. For example, erging does about zilch for arm extensors--maybe a few million no load hands away movements--and zip for pectorals. Pushups, tri curls, dumbell flys, presses correct the imbalances created by volume optimization of one movement at the expense of another.

[Galeere]

My main aim is cardiovascular fitness, and so most of my training will be on the rower. I'm keen to do weight training too - the aims being a balanced physique and to improve my power on the erg.

I can usually manage 4 sessions a week, each between 1 and 1.5 hours. What's the best combination of weights and erging? At the moment I always row first, so depending what I've done I sometimes can't manage much of a weights routine. A 2K blast for example wrecks any other training I might wish to do. Am I better off doing 3 full-on erg sessions and 1 predominantly weights, or should I carry on as I am, with some weight training following immediately after my rowing piece?

I usually row prior to weight training. When doing the Pete plan I did hard endurance or endurance intervals on the weight training day; nowadays sometimes I already did a long row in the morning and just do a UT-warm up priort to weights. On the day after I always either rest or do a recovery row at UT.

[dr3do]

My main aim is cardiovascular fitness, and so most of my training will be on the rower. I'm keen to do weight training too - the aims being a balanced physique and to improve my power on the erg.

Maybe this is helpful for you…

Abstract:

• Very few sports use only endurance or strength. Outside of running long distances on a flat surface and power-lifting, practically all sports require some combination of endurance and strength. Endurance and strength can be developed simultaneously to some degree. However, the development of a high level of endurance seems to prohibit the development or maintenance of muscle mass and strength. This interaction between endurance and strength is called the concurrent training effect. This review specifically defines the concurrent training effect, discusses the potential molecular mechanisms underlying this effect, and proposes strategies to maximize strength and endurance in the high-level athlete.

Link:

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4213370/

[Rockin Roland]

You don't need to do any weight training to improve your erg times. I haven't been to a gym or lifted weights for over 20 years. Yet at the moment, I'm ranked number 1 in the C2 rankings for 2000m, in the 50 to 59 year age group, with a time of 6:27.

[Edward4492]

Roland, couldn't agree more. No arguement with the weight lifting guys. But all I do is erg. Looked you up....you're quite successful in the rowing world. Also checked out the rowperfect. As a matter of curiosity, how do your times on the machine compare to the C2? Looks like the motion is similar to a C2 Dyanamic.

[Bob S.]

You don't need to do any weight training to improve your erg times.

I agree with you on that point. However,I am firmly convinced that it is important to do resistant work on the opposing muscles, especially the pectorals and triceps, which do almost no work in rowing. Not high resistance stuff, but lots of repetitions, to balance out the work done by the muscles that are used in rowing.

By the way, it is good to see you back on the forum again after a fairly long absence.

Bob S.

[Rockin Roland]

Roland, couldn't agree more. No arguement with the weight lifting guys. But all I do is erg. Looked you up....you're quite successful in the rowing world. Also checked out the rowperfect. As a matter of curiosity, how do your times on the machine compare to the C2? Looks like the motion is similar to a C2 Dyanamic.

The C2 Dynamic and Rowperfect ergs may be dynamic in motion but they are still quite different in feel. On occasion I use a C2 Dynamic at a rowing venue for a warm up before racing on the water. For that purpose it does a great job. However, I’ve owned and trained on a Rowperfect for a number of years now. It’s been reliable and served me well. It’s more technical and has a greater degree of difficulty than other ergs. That’s what I like about it.
I’ve set my Rowperfect monitor up to be as close as possible to the C2 monitor so that I can jump from one machine to the other without noticing any real difference in 500m splits. Although there probably is a slight difference, that doesn’t matter to me because I don’t use it for official time trials. I use the C2 instead. And if you look at my recently ranked times in the C2 rankings, it’s proof that you don’t need to train exclusively on a C2 erg to get good results.

[Rockin Roland]

By the way, it is good to see you back on the forum again after a fairly long absence.

Bob S.

G-day Bob, I hope that you are still well. Glad to see that you are still active on this forum. I've neglected to look at this forum for a while as I've been distracted by other forms of social media. However my erging and rowing on the water has been uninterrupted. My reason for a return is that I'm setting myself a challenge over the next 4 months to get a top 3 result over as many times/distances as possible in the C2 rankings for the 50 to 59 year age group. I have done a few already but still have quite a number to do. But I won't be doing the Marathon distance. I don't think I could get myself to sit on any kind of stationary exercise equipment for that long before being overcome by boredom.