HR erg against run

[flemster6]

Just after thoughts on how HR affects your ability to sustain effort. I know my level of fitness will be reflected by my HR during sessions however comparing these 2 workouts, why wasnt I able to maintain a higher HR during the erg, I had to back off as soon as my HR got to 135ish, except for the last k when I knew the finish was in sight!? So the sessions were

5km erg 17.44.6 1.46.4 r24 ave. HR 131
500m splits
1.45.4 25 120
1.45.6 24 126
1.45.9 24 130
1.46.1 24 132
1.46.6 24 133
1.46.9 24 135
1.47.5 25 134
1.48.6 24 133
1.47.8 25 135
1.44.1 27 140

9mile run 1.16.31 ave. HR 138
mile splits / HR
8.40.63 117
8.22.43 131
8.48.94 137 (slow mile + 20secs due to opening / closing 3 gates!!)
8.32.15 140
8.23.64 141
8.23.67 142
8.18.20 144
8.36.02 147
8.25.79 149
So I was able to sustain a higher HR for a longer period of time during the run.

My training during the last few months has been predominantly running.
Im 46, 110kg 195cm

Thoughts ??????

[hjs]

You say it yourself, your main excersice is running, so you are best preparent to run, your body is trained to run, not to erg. On the erg you now have weak links.
Other point, running is vertical, with helps to elevate the hf.

But the hf itself is very low though, if this where close to max sessions. You can,t change that ofcourse.

[Carl Watts]

Wow they are really really low heart rates compared to mine.

Try 180's and my 5Km would have been in the low 190's at the finish from a start of about 100. My resting HR is like 60 at present.

No idea how you keep it that flat, mind you massive height and weight advantage as well.

I find the Erg much easier than running or should I say its barely jogging, much more controllable on the Erg.

Was that a maximal effort row or were you just cruising ? that HR looks like a cruise for you, I cannot even train at heartrates that low, I'm at 135 5minutes after pulling the handle at 2:07 pace ! !

[flemster6]

Thanks for the replies. Both workouts were maximum efforts. My max HR is 173, although at the moment I cant get anywhere near that, I can get to low 150's!

So to improve erg fitness I need to get back on the erg, bit dull compared to a run in the country!!

[hjs]

Thanks for the replies. Both workouts were maximum efforts. My max HR is 173, although at the moment I cant get anywhere near that, I can get to low 150's!

So to improve erg fitness I need to get back on the erg, bit dull compared to a run in the country!!

Its that simple. Train your main sport the most. At the moment its running.

Re hf, very strange. Most people can get pretty easy to 20 beats below ones max. When and how did you see that 173?

[Cyclingman1]

When and how did you see that 173?

The old standby of 220-age is an irrelevancy. Some just have low MHR. You [OP] may be one. Mine, when in my 40s was barely 160.

[flemster6]

173 was achieved a few years ago, I could hit it when completing a max effort session, run, cross train or erg!

I remember when erg fit I could push my HR to around 153 before needing to back off, ive got a way to go to get back there!!

[jamesg]

You pulled almost 300W at rate 24 (ratio 12.5) for near 18 minutes. So presumably you can do well over 8k in 30'. Not much to complain about.

At rate 24, you are working for roughly 1/3 of the time, during the pull, when your instantaneous power production would be around 900W. If that's not maximal, what is? Your HR reflects the average power, not the instantaneous Watts.

So to get your HR higher on the erg, all you need do is increase the rating, which reduces the rest time between strokes and so increases average power. However you do not need to use higher HRs for distance work. Better to watch Lactate and keep it at threshold level (2 mMol).

When rowing, the forces (from both legs at once) can't go directly to the ground or pedal. So if we don't want to disintegrate shoulders and arms, we keep the rating high and the forces low. These days quads and 8s race at almost 40 all the way (for 2k). With your 12.5 ratio, at 40 you'd deliver 500W, not far off Olympic level.

[Carl Watts]

What he said you need to rate up, my 5Km was at 26 SPM, which is still too low.

The lower rating really hurts and elevates your heartrate. Not sure how that sudden drop in MHR can be explained, you could expect a drop every year of a BPM or two, after all that's how the 220-your age formula works.

You cannot complain about your current performance anyway, the extra weight doesn't help and you would notice that even more running. Never forget when I got down to 85Kg, felt like I was running on the moon it was so much easier.

[at1839]

Any time I read about comparing rowing and running I'm more and more persuaded they're quite different beasts and cannot actually compare. I suspect you cannot compare HR ranges too, the limiting factor looks like elsewhere. Simply, runners can't really row and rowers can't really run.

From the average runner's point of view a 5km erg performance of 17.44.6 (3'33"/km) is amazing fast and would be quite fast else as a 'running' workout, when not as a TT. Add to, if you apply the minus 20% formula to the rowing performance, that will end up in a 5k equivalence of 14'11" for a running effort. Just to tell you about I've been used to be a regional level runner and my PB was 15'21".1 at 5k. A 14'11" fly would be for me a dream.

But wait, guess what, a 9mile run on 1.16.31 (5'17"/km) was then not else padding arount for warm up.

And of course vice-versa from the rower point of view, they will barely trust me when I bloat about my 18km/60' as a runner when I'll never go to 15k as a rower

That's life
Paolo.

[roger.homyer]

Lactate threshold values vary between individuals but also between activities. LT is the point where blood lactate exceeds 3.75mMol/ltr and in a trained athlete this is about 87% of heart rate max. It is possible to feel this point as your limbs "go heavy" and you tire.

My running LT is about 5bpm higher than my ski skate threshold (I cross-country ski/SkiErg) and about 10bpm higher than my classic ski threshold. Double poling threshold can be a lot lower- perhaps because smaller muscles (in my case) feature more and these are able to store less lactate- releasing excess into the blood and bringing me earlier to LT. This has implications for all training HR zones and for avoiding overtraining.

It is possible that your running LT is higher than your rowing LT and this might account for the figures you have presented. Whatever, I wish you success with all your activities!

[f2d]

I would also say it depends on the exercise you're more trained in.

I hit a HR of 191 today at the end of a 2K row. There's 0 chance I would hit that doing running. (Because I would bitch out before hitting that threshold)