Building the Basics

[Kai]

Hello all indoor rowers! I am a 59 year old woman, 5"4" average weight, from Vancouver, BC. I had been participating in competitive outrigger paddling for the past five years and about three months ago left the sport. I am now running 5-7 km three times a week and, on the days I am not running, rowing indoors, prior to my weight training workouts, three times a week.

I have been building basics and to that end have been concentrating on developing good technique at 22-26 spm and a factor of aprox 90 drag. Just this week I began to shift my focus to power. I am wondering what watts I should be using as a reference point?

My long term goal is to explore the options for indoor racing, perhaps the 2 km or maybe, if it suits me better, a longer distance. We have a local OTW rowing club and I am thinking that if I could benefit from coaching I'd contact them to see if I could get a few tips for my indoor rowing from someone experienced in the sport.

At this point I time I am relying on information from the Concept2 site and this forum to educate myself and find workouts to follow when in the gym.

I welcome any feedback and/or suggestions from the experienced rowers on this forum.

[tortoise]

Hello all indoor rowers! I am a 59 year old woman, 5"4" average weight, from Vancouver, BC.

Hello yourself! I'm just across the strait in Sequim, WA. Does "average weight" mean under 61.5 k? Very important question in this sport.

[Bob S.]

Hello all indoor rowers! I am a 59 year old woman, 5"4" average weight, from Vancouver, BC. I had been participating in competitive outrigger paddling for the past five years and about three months ago left the sport. I am now running 5-7 km three times a week and, on the days I am not running, rowing indoors, prior to my weight training workouts, three times a week.

I have been building basics and to that end have been concentrating on developing good technique at 22-26 spm and a factor of aprox 90 drag. Just this week I began to shift my focus to power. I am wondering what watts I should be using as a reference point?

My long term goal is to explore the options for indoor racing, perhaps the 2 km or maybe, if it suits me better, a longer distance. We have a local OTW rowing club and I am thinking that if I could benefit from coaching I'd contact them to see if I could get a few tips for my indoor rowing from someone experienced in the sport.

At this point I time I am relying on information from the Concept2 site and this forum to educate myself and find workouts to follow when in the gym.

I welcome any feedback and/or suggestions from the experienced rowers on this forum.

In regard to the watts you might expect, check out the ranking for your gender, age, and weight classification and you will get a good idea of where you stand in relationship with others in your category.

http://log.concept2.com/rankings.asp

Also, thoroughly check out the whole C2 website indoor rowing pages. There is a lot of useful information there, like technique and how to avoid technique flaws. And, yes, it would be a very good idea to check out the rowing club. Also, you have the opportunity to go to a couple of the major indoor rowing competitions in the winter indoor rowing season. There is one in Vancouver that is one of the 20 or so satellite races for the "Crash-B" world indoor rowing championships held every February in Boston. One of the biggest of those, the "Ergomania", is held in Seattle, which is much closer to you than there nearest satellite regatta is to me. (about 145 miles vs 270 miles)

Your stroke rate and drag factor are reasonable. You don't say anything about your times and distances, so I can't comment on that. As I said above, you can check it out for yourself to see how you compare to others in your group. Note that, on this forum, most people use "pace" to designate the intensity of the rowing piece. It is the average time that it would take to row 500m on the erg. A better measure is the number of watts, which is what the monitor is designed for, but pace is defined by its mathematical relationship to watts. There are some very handy conversion tools available on that C2 website I mentioned above that make it quick and easy to determine pace and watts from any particular time/distance information or the reverse. If you enter any one of the 3, the tool will come up with the other 2.

Bob S.

[Bob S.]

delete

[Bob S.]

Correction on that previous message. There are 2 "calculators." One of the is labelled watts calculator and it just does watts to pace and the reverse. With the other one, labelled "pace calculator," you can enter any 2 of time, distance, and pace and it will come up with the third item - plus - the number of watts.

Bob S.

[Kai]

Thanks for your replies, guys!

Tortoise, in terms of weight, at 130 lbs it looks like I would fall into the 'lightweight' category.

Bob, thanks for all the info. Gads, I had a look at that ranking list....geez, I would barely make the bottom of the list if I used today's workout! I have a long ways to go before I can even dream of entering an indoor comp!

Today I did a warmup then five 500 metre pieces. I kept the spm at 24 through out and I averaged 2:54/500 metre power. Holy smokes is that crappy! I must get a much more powerful pull!

I wonder if it is realistic to be able to improve my technique and power on my own or should I seek out hiring a coach?

[tortoise]

Today I did a warmup then five 500 metre pieces. I kept the spm at 24 through out and I averaged 2:54/500 metre power. Holy smokes is that crappy! I must get a much more powerful pull!

Well, remember you'll be 60 soon. 50th percentile on the 2015 women's lightweight 60-69 list is 9:30.4; that's 2:22.6 pace, 120.7 watts power.
Racing, you'd want to go at a higher stroke rate, and you'd be well rested. A decent place in the rankings is not out of reach.

[Bob S.]

Don't worry about your pace at this point, Kai. Those who are new at this game often make fantastic gains in the first few months as they learn proper technique and get used to using the muscles specific to rowing.

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... scles-used

The next video is a demo by Olympic single sculls gold medalist, Xeno Muller. I like it because it shows one full stroke frame by frame. There are 2, actually, with links in the text to use to switch back and forth between the 2. One on the erg with a high rate, 39spm, and the other on the water a 22spm. Note that the time of the drive, 0.69 seconds, is the same for each stroke rate.

https://invernessrowingclub.org.uk/strokecycles/8

This one shows common technique faults and ways to correct them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP6OR-G7AxM

In general, the legs do the majority of the work of rowing. The legs start the drive, with the backswing coming in shortly after, and the arms finishing it off. You should not start to bend your elbows until your legs are almost straight. Don’t make the relatively weak muscles of the arms have to compete with the much more powerful muscles of the legs. On the recovery, it is the opposite. Get your hands away quickly and on out past your knees before your knees start to rise. You don’t want the handle to have to do a rollercoaster ride going over knees that come up too soon.

One last point. Don’t rush the slide trying to get to the catch of the next drive. Sneak up on it gradually. The drive is hard and quick, while the recovery should be slow and relaxed.

Bob S.

[Kai]

Thank you guys, that gives me some perspective and, a possible goal!

Bob, that is very helpful info - appreciate those links too!

Lots for me to tweak... it will be interesting to see how things unfold. I'm hoping that this sport will have a place in my future.

[DanielJ]

I hear that city you're from is a pretty place too.

[Cyclingman1]

Kai, having been an outrigger paddler for five years, you have to know that rowing/erging requires power/strength and fitness/stamina. And those factors interrelate, but are different. Both require that the basic erging stroke be fundamentally correct. Based on your reporting, you have a ways to go.

For 59-64 LWt women, 2015, the 50 percentile time for 2K is 9:29 @2:22.2 and for 500m is 2:09.2. Your 2:54 for 500m repeats indicate a shortage of both power and stamina. Your projected 12min+ time for 2K is mildly puzzling given your paddling background.

How to improve? First, obviously, more meters on the rower. But secondly, you need to specifically work on generating power. I would suggest easy rowing sessions where you do ten-twenty hard pulls every couple of minutes. Concentrate on the pace/500m screen and experiment with what makes you go faster. You must drive off of the foot plates on your toes keeping your arms straight and back rigid until your legs are nearly straight.

Then bring some of that power into longer steady state rows. At this point in your rowing, I see no reason for a restriction to low rates. That is a training tool for experienced rowers. You need speed and stamina anyway you can get there. I always row in the 28-32 SPM range.

[Kai]

Cyclingman thank you for your reply and suggestions.

When I started on the indoor rower a few months ago I was going at a higher spm but then I read that that is a common mistake that beginners made and, to be fair, I'm sure my technique was not at all good at that rate for sure. So I went to a slower spm, hence the workout I did yesterday.

I'll try going at a higher rate and do, as you suggested, some interspersed hard pulls watching the monitor to see what specifically causes the power to increase in terms of the technique I am using. When I paddled my OC1 outrigger canoe I often did something similar by observing my GPS as I made changes to my paddling technique in order to help identify what was leading to a faster speed on the water. So, I can do something similar on the rower.

I understand the principals of an effective technique on the rower but I still need to focus on my own to try develope a solid catch, drive and recovery. I suspect this is going to take some time. I wonder if I can get it together in terms of technique and fitness in order to participate in an indoor rowing compeition this winter. In paddling I found the races to be motivational goals to aim for and useful markers of progress.

[Cyclingman1]

When I started on the indoor rower a few months ago I was going at a higher spm but then I read that that is a common mistake that beginners made and, to be fair, I'm sure my technique was not at all good at that rate for sure. So I went to a slower spm, hence the workout I did yesterday.

There are pluses and minuses to getting on such a forum when starting. Often, it seems that basic information morphs into advocacy for one's particular style. Watch the Concept 2 beginning rowing videos. Nowhere is it stated that 20 SPM should be used by beginners. Fortunately, when I started rowing 3 1/2 yrs ago [with no water experience at all], I knew nothing about this forum and proceeded to row on feel and results. Within 100 days, I actually recorded a certified time for 2K that was under the current WR for 65+ HWt. All of my rowing was in the 30+ SPM area. Since then with more strength and refined technique, I'm a little slower at 28-32 SPM. Maybe not everyone can pick up rowing like I did, but it is not all that hard. I knew to drive my legs from day one. Please, understand that I am NOT advocating any particular SPM. I do suggest that you find a balance of power and SPM that works for you. You will find that by experimenting. And it will change over time. You will get stronger and fitter. You will undoubtedly find that to race the 2K, you will be in the 30+ SPM area. Then it will be a matter of how much power you can generate per stroke and still recover sufficiently per stroke. Usually newcomers make pretty rapid progress on a rower. Don't be intimidated with others' preconceived notions of how you should row. Open up. Go for it. Let's see 2:54 come down to 2:30. And keep on going.

[hjs]

The basic is indeed simple, just row and make sure you use a good stroke, but even with a not great stroke, but by simply making more meter you will improve. Keep it simple, all talk about erging is mostly fluf, toprowers are top for only two reasons. Number one they have the raw talent, and two the make enough meters. In a boat the stroke is important, so most work is done with a strong stroke, that can only be done at a lower rate for longer rows.
On the erg, a less perfect stroke can also work, so here rating is less important.

[Kai]

Good advice here: experimenting to find a good balance between spm and power makes sense. Will be doing that and I plan to report back for further guidance!

cheers