Rowing to improve running

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
RBFC
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by RBFC » October 23rd, 2012, 10:25 am

Robert Wildes wrote:
Cyclingman1 wrote:The flow from what athletes in one sport can do in another sport, when it comes to endurance, is always from running to the other sport. I know that from having been a pretty decent runner, though relatively big, to my inclusion of cycling many years ago and more recently, indoor rowing. The aerobic and anerobic fitness that one obtains in running, assuming one is a dedicated athlete, is unmatched in other sports. In neither cycling or rowing, does the athlete have to support his or her own weight. That is the difference. Cross country skiing probably comes close to running in fitness levels, but I would wonder how well skiers adapt to running.
She may have been an exception, but Ingrid Kristiansen transitioned from cross country skiing to running quite nicely.

Cross Country skiing and running are far more similar movements. Both involve reciprocation of the legs individually, and both are erect-posture bodyweight-bearing movements. The posture and dual-leg drive of rowing carries far less crossover to running, IMO. Rowing also does not involve carrying the bodyweight on the legs.

Lee
Age:61 Ht: 186 cm Wt: 102kg
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Cyclingman1
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by Cyclingman1 » October 23rd, 2012, 2:23 pm

I had forgotten about her.
JimG, Gainesville, Ga, 78, 76", 205lb. PBs:
66-69: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:30.8 3:14.1 6:40.7 17:34.0 21:18.1 36:21.7 30;60;HM: 8337 16237 1:20:25
70-78: .5,1,2,5,6,10K: 1:32.7 3:19.5 6:58.1 17:55.3 21:32.6 36:41.9 30;60;HM: 8214 15353 1:23:02.5

jvincent
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by jvincent » October 24th, 2012, 2:45 pm

Bob S. wrote:
quickstepper wrote:Rowing has definitely compounded the injuries for me.
Can you be a bit more specific about that? What sort of injuries were made worse by rowing? It would be good to know what to watch out for with that sort of problem.

Bob S.
Not the original poster, but I think the analogy is this because it fits for me. Rowing builds your cardio system to a point where you can be "dangerous" to yourself as a runner.

If you were just running you would get tired earlier and would have to slow down so the chances of injury are reduced. With good cardio you won't feel tired while you are running and then BAM! you push too hard and feel it.

I used to run when I was travelling (no rowing machine) and had never really run before. My 5K times were respectable for a guy who had never run a 5K ever before. The first time I did a couple on alternating days and never really felt tired during the runs but the day after the second one my legs/calves were very sore. Either because of bad form or just a different muscle group but my cardio conditioning didn't limit my ability to run the 5K faster than if I had started by running.

Also-ran
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by Also-ran » October 30th, 2012, 11:33 am

If you want to improve your running, then ideally running needs to be your main activity, and rowing should be seen as complimentary and used for lighter cardio workouts.

Given a history of injury I would not try to patch yourself up with orthotics and the like. Go to a good sports phsio / chiropractor who can analyse your gait, flexibility etc, and workout where the weaknesses are. Years of ITBS problems would have been solved had I realised the weakness for me was in the glutes, combined with overly tight hamstrings. From not running a mile I was able to comlpete a sub 3 hr marathon in 10months.

In terms of running, you need to be developing a good base, before you do any speedwork, tempo runs etc. Start off with 2 or 3 runs per week, and support this with cardio stuff on the rower.

When you have develped a running base (lets say you are capable of jogging 15 - 20 miles per week) you could embark on a plan that incorporates the rower. The best plan for this is the Firman Institute FIRST plan. It has a 5k training plan, but not 3k. This incorportates 3 key weekly running workouts (Long Run, Tempo, Speed) and 2 X/Training workouts. The plan recommends rowing, cycling or swimming as they are non weight bearing. This is not an easy plan just because it is 3 runs per week compared to say 6 to 10 runs per week, The 3 runs are all far more intense, so you really do need that solid running base before hand.

j1huegel
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by j1huegel » October 30th, 2012, 7:14 pm

I switched to a midfoot landing called the POSE technique (posetech.com), though Chi and other techniques are similar. If you consider this transition in your running technique, after adaptation your injuries will be very much reduced. I run in very flat Puma H or K streets, and 5 fingers on occasion. Do some research on this technique and you'll improve your speed and reduce your injury rate.

RBFC
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by RBFC » October 30th, 2012, 11:17 pm

A competent othotics examination should include a physical exam, gait analysis (on a treadmill), measurements of leg length, etc. and end with casting your foot to properly form the orthotics. While "standard" podiatric shoe inserts are hard plastic, I've found that the best ones are made from foam rubber of different durometers. These "variable density" inserts provide a reasonable amount of cushioning while standing and doing other low-plyometric-load activities. When running or jumping, the foam compresses progressively until it is virtually solid and prevents over-disruption of the bone structure due to impact. Standard hard plastic orthotic inserts feel like you are standing on a pool ball, even when at rest. Standard orthotics from a podiatrist typically cost $400-500 per pair, while my progressive inserts cost $295 including the examination/fitting and up to 6 sets of inserts for different shoes. The inserts were even custom-gauged as to firmness depending upon the activity level when wearing each pair of shoes. So, my dress shoes are not quite as firm as my athletic shoes, etc.

The previous poster was correct in that orthotics are often purchased at chain pharmacies, etc., and no exam or detailed fitting is included. This is not a successful approach. I know that I was almost crippled with plantar fasciitis, and can now run (4 miles today) without any pain. The gentleman who created my orthotics is a master's degree physical therapist who teaches at our state university. He does the orthotics as a booming side business, his clients being many high-level athletes and doctors who appreciate his thoroughness. So, in my opinion, properly-designed and fitted orthotic arch supports can help to correct many orthopedic ailments. I've seen many videos taken of patients on treadmills demonstrating the improvement in gait, hip level, knee position, and pronation/supination when properly fitted inserts are used.

POSE running helps to reduce skeletal shock load of the running stride by reducing the "braking" alignment of the leg when the foot lands. A simple way to picture the end result is that you are "toppling forward" with each step and using the recovery to just barely get the next leg "under" you, so that you are continually just on the edge of falling forward. Stress forces are not transmitted backward through the skeleton, since the force in that direction becomes much lower.

I hope that this information helps you. Remember to get a good exam first, and that you should understand exactly what physical things are occurring as you step (and which problems are causing the pain/injury).

Lee
Age:61 Ht: 186 cm Wt: 102kg
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frenchtouch
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Re: Rowing to improve running

Post by frenchtouch » May 8th, 2015, 8:15 am

In this article http://www.sportslab.com.br/lib/assets/ ... _guide.pdf
it is been said :
How to get the best aerobic benefit from indoor rowing for middle and long distance running
Supplement 25% of your running with rowing training using the
0.75 - 1 multiple as recommended previously
I have to confess I don't know what means "0.75 - 1 multiple". Should I row 25 % more ? :)

(to clarify I have contracture into the quads and I want to row before returning to running)

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