Weight equivalent of a drive

[T_M]

As a recovering power lifter, I’m curious if there is a chart or a method of estimating what the equivalent weight would be for a drive at a certain DF, and SPM.

One of my best low rate efforts (r17), DF at approx 110, over 30 minutes yielded about a 12.3 W’/stroke average. Some of those drives felt like a 200+ lb deadlift.

Any guesses?

[Bob S.]

As a recovering power lifter, I’m curious if there is a chart or a method of estimating what the equivalent weight would be for a drive at a certain DF, and SPM.

One of my best low rate efforts (r17), DF at approx 110, over 30 minutes yielded about a 12.3 W’/stroke average. Some of those drives felt like a 200+ lb deadlift.

Any guesses?

A little net browsing didn't bring up any solid, specific numbers, but it appears that 150 pounds and up is not unreasonable for the peak of the force curve. 200 looked to be possible. The force curve on the monitor shows it but doesn't give any numbers. Maybe a PM to one of the C2 techs could give you an answer on that.

[Cyclingman1]

As a recovering power lifter .... one of my best low rate efforts (r17), DF at approx 110, over 30 minutes yielded about a 12.3 W’/stroke average.

I wonder how recovered you are. Who wants to slog thru 17 SPM? What's your W/s at 25 SPM for 30 mins? Also, why use DF110? You're big, step it up. I think your 30 min numbers were about 7580. That's about 7-800 too low. I did 8300+ at age 67 as a wimpy cyclist. Become a rower, forget the power lifting.

[T_M]

As a recovering power lifter, I’m curious if there is a chart or a method of estimating what the equivalent weight would be for a drive at a certain DF, and SPM.

One of my best low rate efforts (r17), DF at approx 110, over 30 minutes yielded about a 12.3 W’/stroke average. Some of those drives felt like a 200+ lb deadlift.

Any guesses?

A little net browsing didn't bring up any solid, specific numbers, but it appears that 150 pounds and up is not unreasonable for the peak of the force curve. 200 looked to be possible. The force curve on the monitor shows it but doesn't give any numbers. Maybe a PM to one of the C2 techs could give you an answer on that.

I couldn't find anything either. Just a passing curiosity. Thanks for your ronsideration just the same.

[T_M]

As a recovering power lifter .... one of my best low rate efforts (r17), DF at approx 110, over 30 minutes yielded about a 12.3 W’/stroke average.

I wonder how recovered you are. Who wants to slog thru 17 SPM? What's your W/s at 25 SPM for 30 mins? Also, why use DF110? You're big, step it up. I think your 30 min numbers were about 7580. That's about 7-800 too low. I did 8300+ at age 67 as a wimpy cyclist. Become a rower, forget the power lifting.

Hey Cyclingman...feel better now?

[jamesg]

Average Handle force in kg is approximately 6 x Watts/Rating, or 13 x in pounds. Peak force will be 20-30% higher.

If interested, this is why:

Average Work per stroke = Watts/Rating x 60 Joule.
Work in Joule = Force in Newton x Length in meters; and so Force N = J/L, where L is the net pull length of each stroke.
Guessing your net stroke Length to be 1 meter, Force = 738 N or 738/9.81 = 75 kg or 165 lb.

Notes
9.81 m/s² is g, the acceleration due to gravity that converts kg to Newton.
The ratio kg/lb is 2.2
The net stroke Length is less than overall handle travel by about 25 cm, and depends on drag, height and technique. The overall length can be measured quite easily, but the net length is between two points in mid air that are not easy to identify, hence the guesswork.
If you are 6' tall, 1 meter net pull length is I think a reasonable guess.
If you pull longer strokes, you won't need to pull so hard.
We set Drag so that we can pull as much power as we want, comfortably: which means quickly, without overreach and without excess force. Otherwise it's irrelevant.

PS. Reread your op and data; at 6'3, your stroke length can be more than 1 meter, so you won't need to pull so hard.

[hjs]

As a recovering power lifter .... one of my best low rate efforts (r17), DF at approx 110, over 30 minutes yielded about a 12.3 W’/stroke average.

I wonder how recovered you are. Who wants to slog thru 17 SPM? What's your W/s at 25 SPM for 30 mins? Also, why use DF110? You're big, step it up. I think your 30 min numbers were about 7580. That's about 7-800 too low. I did 8300+ at age 67 as a wimpy cyclist. Become a rower, forget the power lifting.

Hey Cyclingman...feel better now?

Looking at the strokeprofile there are lines on the left ax, those are 25 kg per line. A strong stroke will get above the possibe options and leave a flat piece of line at the top. Don,t worry, cylingmans one does not come there

Toprowers do the bulk of there meters at at rate 18. Although still pretty ok pacewise. Sub 1.50 for endurance pace.

A peakpower is not direct comparable with lifting. To lift 100 kg, you need to have at least 100 kg force just to hold it, moving it needs more force.

I do think Jim is right in you being able to do more. You are still strong, also work a bit on your top fitness. Do some shorter interval stuff at higher rates. It will help.

[Trev]

So at 5'7" I have to pull harder and faster or more often for the same power / pace?

are there any accepted best methods for short rowers?

[hjs]

So at 5'7" I have to pull harder and faster or more often for the same power / pace?

are there any accepted best methods for short rowers?

You first of all simply need to get fitter less talk and more walk for you is number one

A smaller rower in general simply has less lean mass he can use. That is the number one reason faster rowers are often tall.
Per stroke a shorter rower has less lenght and thus time to deliver power.
At a given rate and given pace, say 2.00 rate 20 you should use a higher average power compared to a taller rower. You simply have less time to stroke.
So you either rate up a bit. Rate 20 for you is low, better use 22/24 as a minimum.

There is no method for which rower, its the same for every one. Do the work, get fit and get your diet in check.
The best lightweights in the world, sub 75 pull around 6 min. Wr 5.56 compared to 5.36 for the open record.
The best lightweights are often still pretty tall, 6,0/6.3 is common. 5.7 is not an ideal build for rowing/erging. But deal with it, in other things its an advantage.

[Trev]

So at 5'7" I have to pull harder and faster or more often for the same power / pace?

are there any accepted best methods for short rowers?

You first of all simply need to get fitter less talk and more walk for you is number one

A smaller rower in general simply has less lean mass he can use. That is the number one reason faster rowers are often tall.
Per stroke a shorter rower has less lenght and thus time to deliver power.
At a given rate and given pace, say 2.00 rate 20 you should use a higher average power compared to a taller rower. You simply have less time to stroke.
So you either rate up a bit. Rate 20 for you is low, better use 22/24 as a minimum.

There is no method for which rower, its the same for every one. Do the work, get fit and get your diet in check.
The best lightweights in the world, sub 75 pull around 6 min. Wr 5.56 compared to 5.36 for the open record.
The best lightweights are often still pretty tall, 6,0/6.3 is common. 5.7 is not an ideal build for rowing/erging. But deal with it, in other things its an advantage.

Thanks I'm trying to row most days. Will try the higher rate as suggested.

[Cyclingman1]

Hey Cyclingman...feel better now?

I just want to see some decent bottom line rowing numbers. So what if you can make the force curve look like weightlifting at 17 SPM. There are plenty of people your size but ten years older doing 8500 for 30 min. That will get my attention and might make me feel better. Now I'm feeling indifferent.

[T_M]

Thanks for the responses gentlemen.

Jamesg, thanks for the physics lesson. I got as far as finding a watts/pound-foot converter on line and gave up after that. I’m in the healthcare biz and haven’t had much exposure to that language since college.

Hjs, I always enjoy your posts. Thanks for adding perspective.

Cyclingman, I’m sorry I’m not performing to your expectations 

Most of my “PRs” put me right around the 75th percentile on the online rankings, but to hjs’ point, fitness is the key to improving. Right now, 30+ minute low rate UT level sessions suite me fine. I’m still seeing/feeling results from that and it allows me to continue playing with the weights from time to time. Higher rate intervals will come.

Cheers all!

[Bobpond]

The Ergdata app gives peak force that may be what you want. You can make the apparent feel of weight vary GREATLY depending upon how fast you try to pull the handle back. DF110 pulling fast feels in the hands like double that pulling slow.

I'm just getting started erging so I won't quote any of my numbers there as I'm pretty pitiful. I am just getting started again powerlifting after several months off due to injuries (not related to lifting, but made me unable to work out). I'm using erging to supplement my conditioning, add to my overall activity level, it is the best warmup I've ever used for weight workouts, and also pretty much every day doing some easy rowing to help with stress relief.

If you can't get ahold of the app, I'll do some tests and post a few numbers here as to what it says. Then I'll duck.

[kini62]

So at 5'7" I have to pull harder and faster or more often for the same power / pace?

are there any accepted best methods for short rowers?

You first of all simply need to get fitter less talk and more walk for you is number one

A smaller rower in general simply has less lean mass he can use. That is the number one reason faster rowers are often tall.
Per stroke a shorter rower has less lenght and thus time to deliver power.
At a given rate and given pace, say 2.00 rate 20 you should use a higher average power compared to a taller rower. You simply have less time to stroke.
So you either rate up a bit. Rate 20 for you is low, better use 22/24 as a minimum.

There is no method for which rower, its the same for every one. Do the work, get fit and get your diet in check.
The best lightweights in the world, sub 75 pull around 6 min. Wr 5.56 compared to 5.36 for the open record.
The best lightweights are often still pretty tall, 6,0/6.3 is common. 5.7 is not an ideal build for rowing/erging. But deal with it, in other things its an advantage.

So since I'm only about 5'6" there is no point for me to do r20 workouts? I should keep it to around r22 or so for my low rate work?

Thanks

[G-dub]

I'm 5'8" and I do 20 rate work all the time. It makes me work hard on the drive which I hope will make me more powerful. I think the point is that with our height we have a smaller aerobic system and a shorter drive at minimum so we have to be really fit to overcome the fact that our system is smaller and probably have to rate higher to try to equalize things, which requires that we are really fit. Both of those makes it tough for us to be at the top of the sport, but we can get as much out of it as we can and want. But I will yield to the Dutchman and see what he says.