Flywheel not catching

[Dingbat]

Hello,

I have just purchased a model D. First time I have ever used a rower. I'm somehwat portly and 1.82 meters tall so I have to spread my knees to get my body in a position to start the drive.

I have the following question - when I start the drive pushing with my legs there is no resistance from the flywheel. Only by the time my arms start pulling do I seem to be able to transfer any power to the flywheel. If for instance I keep my hands extended throughout the drive there is only resistance during the last couple of centimeters. This means that although my legs are tired I don't really get the feeling they are doing much work.

Any ideas/suggestions?

[G-dub]

It takes effort and some quickness, like you are almost jumping off the footplates. It's not a slow movement, more ballistic. Try to wait to use the back and arms until the legs get down. There are other posts in the past that are aimilar that might get you some good advice too. Ones doing with force curve, damper setting, quickness at the catch, use of legs, etc.

[hjs]

Hello,

I have just purchased a model D. First time I have ever used a rower. I'm somehwat portly and 1.82 meters tall so I have to spread my knees to get my body in a position to start the drive.

I have the following question - when I start the drive pushing with my legs there is no resistance from the flywheel. Only by the time my arms start pulling do I seem to be able to transfer any power to the flywheel. If for instance I keep my hands extended throughout the drive there is only resistance during the last couple of centimeters. This means that although my legs are tired I don't really get the feeling they are doing much work.

Any ideas/suggestions?

What pace and rating do you use. The tower itself gives no resistance, you do, the stroke needs to fast, recovery easy. You proberly simply don,t put enough effort in.

[jamesg]

The erg has no weights to lift or brakes to work against, just the flywheel, so loads are inertial only. Newtons says the resistance force is equal to the force applied. You need to accelerate the handle.

[kini62]

Hello,


Any ideas/suggestions?

Sounds like you might be sliding your butt back instead of your whole body.

[Dingbat]

Hi,

Thanks - that's it, not using the legs enough and pronto the pain in my shoulders go and I get 200 meters more per interval. Looking at videos it doesn't look as if the top class rowers put in much leg speed but I guess they have a couple of inches inseam on me.

It makes for a dramatic change in how the body feels after intervals. Previously I could manage 2:30/30 intervals now if I go over :30/:30 my heart is at 171 and at :30/:30 I can keep it at around 158.

[iain]

Try slowing the recovery. Get your hands out in front, then crawl up the slide before a powerful drive. Unlike most exercise machines, rowing is a series of short bursts of power and then relaxing to recover between. I would suggest that you try to row at 20-22 SPM for longer stretches until you have the technique ingrained.

- Iain

[Dingbat]

Hi,

Thanks - that's it, not using the legs enough and pronto the pain in my shoulders go and I get 200 meters more per interval. Looking at videos it doesn't look as if the top class rowers put in much leg speed but I guess they have a couple of inches inseam on me.

It makes for a dramatic change in how the body feels after intervals. Previously I could manage 2:30/30 intervals now if I go over :30/:30 my heart is at 171 and at :30/:30 I can keep it at around 158.

Latest laments -

Currently restarted my rowing, 182cm and 115k - can just about manage an interval of 500m 1:00 rest *5 at 20spm and about 170W.

My main issue is discipline - I can handle all sorts of sprints to the death but a steady pace for a stretch of time (even 500m is a challenge) I find difficult to maintain spm and W. any hints?

Edit: another thing - I have a strong upper body and never feel that my legs are doing the main work in the stroke. I now do some cycling intervals but was wondering whether anybody has the same issue and some bright ideas.

[markinnb]

Hi,

Thanks - that's it, not using the legs enough and pronto the pain in my shoulders go and I get 200 meters more per interval. Looking at videos it doesn't look as if the top class rowers put in much leg speed but I guess they have a couple of inches inseam on me.

It makes for a dramatic change in how the body feels after intervals. Previously I could manage 2:30/30 intervals now if I go over :30/:30 my heart is at 171 and at :30/:30 I can keep it at around 158.

Latest laments -

Currently restarted my rowing, 182cm and 115k - can just about manage an interval of 500m 1:00 rest *5 at 20spm and about 170W.

My main issue is discipline - I can handle all sorts of sprints to the death but a steady pace for a stretch of time (even 500m is a challenge) I find difficult to maintain spm and W. any hints?

Edit: another thing - I have a strong upper body and never feel that my legs are doing the main work in the stroke. I now do some cycling intervals but was wondering whether anybody has the same issue and some bright ideas.

post a video.
other than that, we're all guessing. educated guesses but a video would do wonders.
last year, perhaps your problem was 1. no leg engagement . you simply slid the seat away from you without the push-drive- kick from the legs. your upper body stayed where it was while you moved the seat down the rail.
I see people do this at the gym. So I agree with kini.
dingbat- I hope that you fixed that problem

Sounds like you might be sliding your butt back instead of your whole body.

what is this long distance that you say that you can't do. ? what distance are these 'sprints' that you can do to the death.

you're having a problem with 500 meters rows? what damper setting / drag are you using.?

[Dingbat]

Hi,

Thanks - that's it, not using the legs enough and pronto the pain in my shoulders go and I get 200 meters more per interval. Looking at videos it doesn't look as if the top class rowers put in much leg speed but I guess they have a couple of inches inseam on me.

It makes for a dramatic change in how the body feels after intervals. Previously I could manage 2:30/30 intervals now if I go over :30/:30 my heart is at 171 and at :30/:30 I can keep it at around 158.

Latest laments -

Currently restarted my rowing, 182cm and 115k - can just about manage an interval of 500m 1:00 rest *5 at 20spm and about 170W.

My main issue is discipline - I can handle all sorts of sprints to the death but a steady pace for a stretch of time (even 500m is a challenge) I find difficult to maintain spm and W. any hints?

Edit: another thing - I have a strong upper body and never feel that my legs are doing the main work in the stroke. I now do some cycling intervals but was wondering whether anybody has the same issue and some bright ideas.

post a video.
other than that, we're all guessing. educated guesses but a video would do wonders.
last year, perhaps your problem was 1. no leg engagement . you simply slid the seat away from you without the push-drive- kick from the legs. your upper body stayed where it was while you moved the seat down the rail.
I see people do this at the gym. So I agree with kini.
dingbat- I hope that you fixed that problem

Sounds like you might be sliding your butt back instead of your whole body.

what is this long distance that you say that you can't do. ? what distance are these 'sprints' that you can do to the death.

you're having a problem with 500 meters rows? what damper setting / drag are you using.?

Thx. I am using my 32" inseam legs in the stroke but I still kind of feel that they ought to be doing more. At the moment I'm working on the principle that my upper body is stronger than my legs so I put my bike on one of those Tracxx back wheel training thingies. After a short workout my legs feel like hell so it must be doing some good.

I played rugby in my youth - sprint from scrum to ruck all day long, no issue, jog around the pitch drove me mad. Same principle in rowing, I can sprint my way through 500 meters but a steady pace through that length is a (mental) challenge. I drift off the stroke rate, I can't stop myself from accelerating when the distance becomes less than 100 meters- I just can't get a constant rhythm. Tried listening to music and closing my eyes, made it even worse (probably wrong music). I simply can't imagine doing 1k or more, its driving me nuts.

Damper is 3.5 and I can't remember the drag but it's within the widely recomended range.

[markinnb]

your technique is off.
bike: you have no choice but to use your legs.
rower- technique determines the percentage . many people skip the legs part. they haven't figured out how to get the legs involved and then only use the as support.
their upper body swing comes in first then maybe it''s the legs but many times, it is the biceps that takes the brunt of the force.
these sort of rowers are 'pullers' . it isn't pretty to watch.
it could be that your belly is in the way so you may have to pull with your arms & back for the time being. That said, I would ALWAYS work on improving my technique.
as you get in better shape , you will be thankful that you have the good technique.

if you do take a video of your rowing- do the style of rowing that lead you to post up your comments.
so many times, in whatever sport- the person posts a video performing the event in almost excruciatingly perfect detail. which couldn't possibly be true but that's what they post up. similar to the idea of posting up their diet; on paper for people to see, it's nothing but brussel sprouts and broccoli . But they live on pizza beer and big macs in reality.

[Bob S.]

if you do take a video of your rowing- do the style of rowing that lead you to post up your comments.
so many times, in whatever sport- the person posts a video performing the event in almost excruciatingly perfect detail. which couldn't possibly be true but that's what they post up.

Good point. One poster who has been on the forum for quite some time recently posted a video taken in the middle of a time trial in which he was concentrating on doing well on the TT and allowed the flaws to flow. He has been around long enough to know what good technique is and, if he was concentrating on using it on a short, non-intensive piece, the flaws might not show up. I have been shocked more than once to see pictures or a video of myself under race conditions. The flaws really all come out in that final sprint. Technique all just goes down the drain.

[markinnb]

Have the same problem with the knees - I find it hinders my breathing for tummy to meet the knees and started the bad habit of splaying my legs on the recovery.

from another thread:

Here is part of the problem.

your knees are going outwards, sideways. your legs are at a mechanical disadvantage. you have created a situation where the combined Force -back- down- the- rail is substantially reduced.

as you have created a parallel right angle triangle as well as a perpendicular right angle triangle . I and others have droned on about this before.

it's difficult to push off with your legs when they are not lined up directly with the foot saddles.

dingbat... put all the information that we need in one thread.

[Dingbat]

Have the same problem with the knees - I find it hinders my breathing for tummy to meet the knees and started the bad habit of splaying my legs on the recovery.

from another thread:

Here is part of the problem.

your knees are going outwards, sideways. your legs are at a mechanical disadvantage. you have created a situation where the combined Force -back- down- the- rail is substantially reduced.

as you have created a parallel right angle triangle as well as a perpendicular right angle triangle . I and others have droned on about this before.

it's difficult to push off with your legs when they are not lined up directly with the foot saddles.

dingbat... put all the information that we need in one thread.

I'll put up a video - might take a week or so. Thx for your comments / help so far

[markinnb]

Thx. I am using my 32" inseam legs in the stroke but I still kind of feel that they ought to be doing more.
Damper is 3.5 and I can't remember the drag but it's within the widely recomended range.

you've created a situation where you now have a double reduction of the effectiveness of your leg kick drive. the lateral movement reduces the 'effective backwards force" nd this effective backwards force " is reduced by the fact that it is next to impossible to push 100% directly backwards due to how we are built and how the machines are built. Some get close to 100% transmission but most get something less.
and your belly is in the way of your push in the first place.

Once you lose your belly, you will be able to get your legs involved.

drag factor: you will have to hit the " other option" in order to see the drag factor. It means that you have to take a few strokes while in this function mode in order to find the drag factor.

depending on a number of things 3.5 may be 110-150. Dont' bother mentioning damper setting in your future posts. Make sure that you post up the drag factor.

Best of luck buddy. Keep at it and when you hit it, you'll know it! and you'll see why this is so addictive.