Rowing form video

[hjs]

If I'm seeing this right, the watts per stroke for pace 1:35 is around 18.5. For pace 1:20 at the same SPM the W/stroke is 31.0. 99.99% of ergers don't do 31.0. So, what is the issue?

I guess the issue is that even if I could somehow maintain a 1:35 through 2k, my time would only be 6:20. Looking at past C.R.A.S.H results, it seems that many men pull a 2k between 5:50-6:30 which seems unbelievable considering that they purportedly use such a low drag. I guess I just figured there was something they were doing technique-wise that I wasn't, or else they are 100x stronger me to pull 1000 strokes with the same power as I can pull 50. =\

Rowing has little to do with being strong, its about being fit, you have to make meters, meters, meters and meters. They don,t use low drag, you use way to high drag. A good rower can easily pull 130/135 at drag 100, ofcourse using a suited rating. Not rate 22, that is fine for training not racing.

[hjs]

Elite rowers that are pulling under 1:30 for 2k are usually at 30-35 spm.

Often higher, here a guy pulled rate 40 on the 2k git for the most part, 5.44 ish, being 2.00 tall. A lightweight pulled mid 40 to 50 even.. For the whole 20.

The aussie pull above 30 for a hour.... Fitnes, fitness fitness. Not strenght at all. Ofcourse on the 500 you need strenght, bu again rate, not 35, but more.

Look here https://www.google.nl/search?q=bernard+ ... ent=safari

1.87 tall pulling a 1.13 500 meter.

[mrhyner]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback guys. I've always heard that people in the rowing community were especially helpful to those trying to learn, now I know.

Bob s -- Good advice about the force curve. Watching that I think has helped me figure out how to put more emphasis on my legs during my drive. One thing I noticed, and as jackarabit also observed, was that lowering my arm level down to my sternum sets the chain closer to my legs and thus allows me to generate a little more power. I was able to get down in the low 1:30's with a damper of 1.

DanielJ -- Thanks for saying that I have potential. I am very interested in rowing (enough to buy my own C2) because I have always excelled at functions which require pulling (rather than pushing). Deadlifting and pullups are much stronger than bench and squat for me. That said, when I keep hearing people say "rowing isn't about strength" and "rowing is an endurance sport", I feel like rowing may not be for me afterall. I'm just more of a weightlifter I guess, short powerful bursts of energy. I have nothing against marathon runners, swimmers, cyclists, but I never had the patience for it personally. Maybe I should just stick with 500m sprinting. So far I've tried 5 times and my current PB is 1:25.2 if that's even good.

[lindsayh]

DanielJ -- Thanks for saying that I have potential. I am very interested in rowing (enough to buy my own C2) because I have always excelled at functions which require pulling (rather than pushing). Deadlifting and pullups are much stronger than bench and squat for me. That said, when I keep hearing people say "rowing isn't about strength" and "rowing is an endurance sport", I feel like rowing may not be for me afterall. I'm just more of a weightlifter I guess, short powerful bursts of energy. I have nothing against marathon runners, swimmers, cyclists, but I never had the patience for it personally. Maybe I should just stick with 500m sprinting. So far I've tried 5 times and my current PB is 1:25.2 if that's even good.

Your technique IMO looks pretty OK and physically you are very suitable. I agree that there is a big difference between power/strength and fitness and no matter what distance you are racing the meters are impossible to avoid. It should be said that erging even more than rowing is a pushing exercise much more than a pulling one - legs are way stronger than arms of course and technique is a way of transferring power efficiently from legs and arms to the handle => watts. That may be one reason for your frustration - you are pulling more than pushing.
The other thing is stroke rate and that's where fitness comes in - Richard Steventon in the UK is 62yo and does a sub 6:30 2k @38sr
500m @1:25.2 is pretty average to be fair - my PB as a 63yo is 1:25.4 and the fast younger guys are around 1:20 and the difference in watts is huge.

[Luthor1]

Does it look like his knee's are rising a little early to anyone else? Maybe do a bit more arms and body before starting to go forward on the slide, that's the only thing I can see, and I am a novice newbie who just watches lots of video's!!

...so you can probably ignore me :O)

Andy

[Cyclingman1]

It certainly would be interesting to see the pace for the OP at SPMs in the 30+ range for say 500m. Very, very few people ever get below 1:15 for 500m. I suspect this dude could do it. So much for lack of power.

[jackarabit]

In addition to analyzing the haystack (resultant of blended waves of effort really) under the force curve, take a look at this video of isolated leg, back, arms drill. I think it's one of the best I've seen and oddly the camera is fwd of the beam altho not quite off the bow as in mrhyner's. Jack

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9a3zSSdew ... ode=NORMAL

[Bob S.]

I think Bob S's advice to look at the force curve is valuable.

Take a look at this video - Peter Dreissigacker gives some advice on watching the force curve at a low damper setting to work on getting the legs involved right at the start of the drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mql ... DTmQCdTIZz

I found it useful; maybe you will, too.

Thanks for finding and posting that. When I made that suggestion, it was just on a hunch that it would be helpful. It was neat to see the idea confirmed so dramatically.

Bob s.

[mrhyner]

It certainly would be interesting to see the pace for the OP at SPMs in the 30+ range for say 500m. Very, very few people ever get below 1:15 for 500m. I suspect this dude could do it. So much for lack of power.

So how much weight might someone need to be able to squat to pull a 1:15 for an brief sprint?

[Cyclingman1]

Virtually no correlation.

[hjs]

It certainly would be interesting to see the pace for the OP at SPMs in the 30+ range for say 500m. Very, very few people ever get below 1:15 for 500m. I suspect this dude could do it. So much for lack of power.

So how much weight might someone need to be able to squat to pull a 1:15 for an brief sprint?

Although there is pretty strong relation between squat (deadlift even more) and lowpull, other things play a role. Height does not help squats but does help rowing power. The best sprinters on the erg do lots of strenghwork. 2k rowers do not, meters, meters and meters is what they do.

[jackarabit]

A late followup on Bob Spenger's reference to the use of the force curve in diagnosing erging power generation deficiencies.

http://journal.crossfit.com/2011/09/row ... ticleTitle

This from Angela Hart, C2 instructor. Check out your own force curve. Mine has the dreaded thoracic slump dimple or depression immediately before arms finish but happily exhibits the classic "left-leaning haystack". Jack

[dwalk]

It really varies from rower to rower if they strength train or not. Eric Murray says he doesn't squat or deadlift, but others like Kjetil Borch squats 440lbs and deadlifts over 400. Both are world champions and have 2k times under 5:50. It takes good form along with power to sprint really well on the erg. At 5'11" my low pull is 1:11 and best 100m time is around 14.8, which really means nothing to me since I really want to get my 2k from around 6:29-30 to under 6:20. I have lost a little sprint speed recently after focusing on the 2k and doing well over 400k in the last month or so.

[mrhyner]

It really varies from rower to rower if they strength train or not. Eric Murray says he doesn't squat or deadlift, but others like Kjetil Borch squats 440lbs and deadlifts over 400. Both are world champions and have 2k times under 5:50. It takes good form along with power to sprint really well on the erg. At 5'11" my low pull is 1:11 and best 100m time is around 14.8, which really means nothing to me since I really want to get my 2k from around 6:29-30 to under 6:20. I have lost a little sprint speed recently after focusing on the 2k and doing well over 400k in the last month or so.

Wow, 1:11 seems quite good to me. Just curious, how much do you squat/deadlift? Also, what rating are you pulling 1:11 at?

It seems like the best I can do is about 1:15 despite being 6'4'' and having a 455 deadlift which is why I was thinking my form was off. Maybe I'm just not explosive enough.

[DanielJ]

Further to my last post, looking at your video, you engage your back earlier in the stroke as the video progresses, as you're putting more effort in.

The power -- the explosion -- should come from your legs. I refer back to my last post, and also Lindsay's point about rowing being a pushing exercise. With good technique and timing, you should feel the resistance and the struggle in your thighs.

I tried for a low pull today and I saw a 1:20 (three times), which, in terms of wattage, is 82.4% of yours. But if you were to see me and my frame, I'm clearly nowhere near 82.4% of your strength or your physicality. If a knowledgeable rower were to look at both of us, and assume we brought the same technique to the erg, they'd probably guess my max power output is about 40-50% of yours. But I've worked hard on developing the timing in my stroke and I'm applying my lame quads properly. And my 1:20 was done at 46 spm, which isn't even high compared to what some guys can reach. (Rob Smith went up to about 66 spm in his 100m WR, in which he managed a low pull of 1:03, and he looks pretty similar to you in terms of physique.) I also did dumbbell squats for 20 minutes last night, and my quads were still feeling it, even after the warm-up. The dumbbells were 50lb each, and I did 7 lots of 11. See what I mean by lame?

If I can low-pull 1:20, you should get well into the low 1:10s, perhaps even 1:09-10. You can do this.

Check out this video of Rob Smith breaking his own 300m record. Look at his legs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhupkUAL_r0 (the guy in the foreground, and certainly not the silly sausage in the far background)


(Edit - Changed my low pull from 1:22 to 1:20 because I tried again with the wife watching! )